↧
more.....
↧
letters 1 CONVOLUTIONS AND SPINNERS: JULIE NATHAN'S ARTICLE
SERIES OF LETTERS ON LINE EX THE OZ WEBSITE.
UNFORTUNATELY THE TOP ITEM WAS CENSORED BY THE AUSTRALIAN EDITOR:
I MANAGED TO CUT AND PASTE IT BEFORE IT WAS CENSORED!!!
This is not the first time The oz has done this!
Geoff Seidner
2. 48 pm Tues 28/11/17
![Avatar for Helen]()
Helen ![Avatar for Paul]()
Paul ![Avatar for Wieslaw]()
Wieslaw ![Avatar for Obeyno1]()
Obeyno1
![Avatar for agostino]()
agostino ![Avatar for David]()
David
![Avatar for Jean]()
Jean ![Avatar for Ron]()
Ron ![Avatar for stephen]()
stephen ![Avatar for Nigel]()
Nigel ![Avatar for Phil]()
Phil
![Avatar for Richard]()
Richard ![Avatar for John]()
John ![Avatar for Calvin]()
Calvin ![Avatar for kev of Tas]()
kev of Tas
![Avatar for kev of Tas]()
kev of Tas
![Avatar for Allan]()
Allan ![Avatar for Chris]()
Chris ![Avatar for Geoff]()
Geoff
![Avatar for kev of Tas]()
kev of Tas ![]()
UNFORTUNATELY THE TOP ITEM WAS CENSORED BY THE AUSTRALIAN EDITOR:
I MANAGED TO CUT AND PASTE IT BEFORE IT WAS CENSORED!!!
This is not the first time The oz has done this!
Geoff Seidner
2. 48 pm Tues 28/11/17
So WHY did AusAide grant the Israel Hating, Palestinjan, Hamas promoting, "Peace and Conflict Studies" at Sydney University, $500,000 two years ago!!
The far left & far right are one and the same both tied to socialism.
Remember the National Socialist Workers Party "NAZI".
Wether socialists are far left or far right evil always follows.
The only safe space against these people is natural conservatism.
With my knowledge “ultranacionalists” in Poland are called “Patriots” and all Jews living there do not need
any armed quards, high fences, metal detectors etc. so please don’t spread left side hysteria.
Won't it be grand if conservatives get their way to allow conscientious objection by private enterprises. It won't just be homosexuals being discriminated against.
17 centuries of anti-antisemitism (accused of being god killers) by Christians and 14 centuries by Muslims hasn't disappeared.
Sometimes, it seems that those shouting the loudest about racism are the ones that are most intolerant, shouting down diverse views, protesting, rioting, behaving in anti-social ways and destroying the private properties of people.
Surely the greatest threats to the safety of Jewish people comes from Islam. This is apparent from events in UK and Europe. I recall seeing signs saying 'Hamas, Hamas, Jews to the gas' at Islamic rallies in Australia along with signs such as "behead those who insult the Prophet'. Jewish schools and synagogues in France find the need to hire security guards. The 'Charlie Hebdo' hit job happened at the same time that people in a kosher supermarket were gunned down. And, quite chillingly, Islamic terrorists in India specifically targeted jews when they massacred numerous people at a major hotel a few years back. I recall reading that they went out of their way to identify anyone who might be jewish. What this has to do with, or how this can be linked to Donald Trump, is beyond me.
@David. I could not agree with you more. I thought this article was rather delusional. The right may be on the rise in Europe, but most of its rhetoric there has been directed against uncontrolled borders and massive Islamic immigration.
Interesting that the Greens and Labor in Australia have turned to supporting Palestine organisation and its war on Jews...including support of the BDS sanctions against Israel. How does the author equate this as coming from “right” groups?
Deuteronomy 28:33 says to the people of God: "you shall have nothing but cruel oppression all your days", amongst many other curses, if they disobey Him. Scripture doesn't lie; this article confirms prophecy, as does the course of history.
You make sweeping allegations against the Poles and Donald Trump that cannot be maintained.
Trump disavowed the white supremacists in the strongest terms. What more can he do?
In Poland, it was a show of national pride and perhaps antisemetic elements attached themselves to the march but in no possible way could the march be interpreted as an anti Jewish march.
In the religious literature of 25% of the world population, the Jewish people are held in contempt and mistrust but this religion has very little to do with Poland or Trump.
BDS was invented and is promulgated in left-leaning academia. Antisemitism is a core belief of the left just look at the British Labour party.
Does it matter whether the rise in anti-semitism is coming from the left or the right? Can't we just condemn it no matter where it originates? I do. I condemn the anti-semitism.
PhilR
@Phil Of course it matters. The most effective way to treat a problem is to understand it first. If you focus on a few crazy so called "right wingers" and ignore the rampant, and establishment approved, anti-semitism of the universities, major political parties, the union movement and governments (British Labour, The Greens, Democrats etc) how can anyone develop effective techniques of fighting it?
This has the distinct sound of a hoax about it. If we found out who's actually behind 'Antipodean Resistance', we might find it's actually a set-up.
It is factually wrong and highly inappropriate to imply that Trump is responsible for any anti-semitic behaviours. He has been an articulate and unambiguous supporter of Israel for years, has close Jewish relatives, has worked well with PM Netanyahu, and has been a welcome and stark departure from Obama's constant sniping against Israel. Trump's factual acknowledgement of the Holocaust during his Warsaw speech in July was lauded throughout Poland and Israel...a speech which would have been inconceivable during the Obama years. It is preposterous to imply that Trump is anti-semitic or has encouraged anti-semitism.
Julie Nathan, you have to choose between your obviously leftist ideaology and the TRUTH.
It is the LEFT which is the threat to Jews. It is we conservatives who are your only friends in this country.
The most prominent change has been the rise in extreme right-wing activity.
Prominent change - it went from one incident to two.
Meanwhile the large violent barrage anti-semitic actions by leftists and islamists remains constant at about a zillion a year. Very reassuring.
I suggest that this whole article is a desperate attempt to avoid the facts - anti-Semitism is fulled by the LEFT and by islamists.
Nathan is totally out of touch as the big threat is from the socialist left. Has she been watching the ABC or Fairfax?
Sorry, but isn't this the same story from 2016 ... and 2015 ... etc.?
Maybe it is true, but my eyes and ears don't tell me it is true (They are the same eyes and ears that tell me, despite 'statistics', that there is little sexual assault on campus, women are doing very well in society and the SSM debate was conducted in a civil manner).
It is difficult for 'research' to be convincing when those who conduct it have a vested interest in the outcome.
There are so many labels being attached to people (left, right, etc) when there is such a diversity on the scale. It's like children doing name-calling without any ability to rationally and intellectually reason out what is going on.
It amazes me that someone who authors a report on anti-Semitism will attempt to lay blame on a supporter of Israel (namely Trump, who did in fact condemn, not condone racism) and let the greatest perpetrators of anti-Semitism off without a mention!
@Geoff It is safer to attack Trump because there is no danger of retaliation and it might curry favour (for a while) with the REAL enemy.
ie it is appeasement.
Show More Comments
↧
↧
letters 2....
letters 2
![Avatar for Paul]()
Paul ![Avatar for David]()
David ![Avatar for Aaron]()
Aaron ![Avatar for Jean]()
Jean ![Avatar for bronwyn]()
bronwyn
![Avatar for PatrickJD]()
PatrickJD ![Avatar for Rebecca]()
Rebecca ![Avatar for graham]()
graham
![Avatar for Paul]()
Paul ![Avatar for Geoff]()
Geoff
![Avatar for Greg]()
Greg
Is this what you are referring to. Contemporary ME popular television, including for children, perpetuates the yarn to this day. Particularly favoured in Palestine.![Avatar for kev of Tas]()
kev of Tas ![Avatar for Elizabeth]()
Elizabeth ![Avatar for arlys]()
arlys ![Avatar for David]()
David ![Avatar for ivan]()
ivan
ie it is appeasement.
As the writer well knows - but fails to mention - is that the rising incidence of anti-Semitism comes from the “left” and its obsession with the supposed sins of the state of Israel. The writer also fails to mention he other cause - the existence of a virulent anti-Semitism amongst some in the Muslim community which largely goes unremarked or unchecked by mainstream media for fear of being labelled Isamophobic. The whole article is one of deflection from the real issues and the mention of Donald Trump is simply ludicrous.
@Paul I agree Paul,
The idea that anti-semitism is an extreme right wing thing is wrong. It is, as is fascism, a projection of the left's own history and beginnings onto conservatives and those of the right that is the problem.
Dinesh D'Souza explains this very well in his book The Big Lie. n
@Paul Exactly. I can bet your bottom dollar a lot of anti Semitism is being bred on the university campuses which are hot beds for far left ideology. A shame she cannot either see where their real enemies are, or chooses not to mention it.
@Aaron@Paul. The very large elephant in the room which the “fashionable” left will not name for fear of being deemed one of the “ists” or “phobics”. Completely deluded is a good description.
I'd never heard of Antipodean Resistance, and Wikipedia says its membership is 'very small'. The left is known for its anti-Israel and pro-Palestinian proclivities, which sometimes spill over into boycotts or other anti-Jewish activities. However their objections are more political than racial.
Blaming Trump for anti-Semitic behaviour is a lot of rubbish, hardly worth taking seriously. His son-in-law, who is supposed to be too close to Trump, is a Jew.
I don't think we are dealing with a major problem here.
@bronwyn Indeed, the author's bias against conservatives shows. It is a pity because anti-Semitic hatred of Jews (Arabs too are racially Semitic, not all Jews are) is abhorrent to conservatives who recognise the good that Donald Trump is doing. The author does not seem to have taken note of the US President's recent visit to Israel and his explicit support for civilized Western values.
@PatrickJD @bronwyn However, Obama disposition towards Israel was certainly questionable at times!
The greatest threat to a Palestinian family and their home is the Jewish State of Israel. A good size in Israel would agree with me. They can't have both ways they lost the high ground a long time ago.
They are intitled to go about their life here without any fear same as the Palestinian children should be allowed without fear of kidnap.
@graham It is interesting - we are told that anti - Zionism has nothing to do with anti - Semitism. Why raise the policies of the state of Israel in a discussion on anti - Semitism?
@graham Israel has given up a lot of land for peace (land that they bought) to appease Palestinians. Every time they gave it up, the Palestinians were emboldened to be more aggressive. They do not want peace. They have openly said they want every Jew wiped from the face of the earth.
You made no mention of the fact that these so-called Palestinian children and their families are paid a lot of money to attack Israelis by the Palestinian authority and when arrested (kidnapped in your words), the families are paid even more. This money by the way is provided by gullible donors to the Palestinian causes.
Blood libel (also blood accusation) is an accusation that Jews kidnapped and murdered the children of Christians in order to use their blood as part of their religious rituals during Jewish holidays. Historically, these claims – alongside those of well poisoning and host desecration – have been a major theme of the persecution of Jews in Europe.
Is this what you are referring to. Contemporary ME popular television, including for children, perpetuates the yarn to this day. Particularly favoured in Palestine.
@graham The greatest threat to Palestinins is their own administration and the greatest threat to Palestinian children is dying in a tunnel collapse or some other terrorist related activity.
I suggest you actually GO THERE some time and see for yourself.
@graham Kidnap?? I think you got that wrong. It was Jewish children who were kidnapped and murdered. Not Palestinian children.
Sorry. Why target Jews? What on earth have they done? They are good citizens, they don't need a special police squad, the children are well educated and polite, they feature highly in Medicine, Judiciary, and big business, they are good Australians, who contribute greatly to the country. Are they now being lumped in with us white, straight, Conservative Catholics, who are the present targets? There is no place for any religion or group to be targeted in this democracy. No place whatsoever.
I find this staggering, the greatest threat to the Jewish community is the left wing; just look at the campaign from UNSW radical Left Socialist Alternative. The left wing in all its glory of equal representation claim the Jewish minority to be a threat.
Kicked out of more than half the country's in the world for no reason. When will the racism stop?
↧
Attacks on Jews signal ,,,by Julie Nathan... ECAJ RESEARCH OFFICER
Attacks on Jews signal a worrying threat to all civilised society
In the aftermath of the Holocaust it was hoped that expressions of murderous Jew-hatred would be considered so odious as to be a thing of the past.
The Holocaust, the deliberate and planned killing of every Jewish man, woman and child the Nazis and their collaborators could get their hands on, was a seminal event for humanity.
It demonstrated that although human beings have the potential to rise to all kinds of lofty heights, there is also no limit to the moral depths to which they may sink.
In far too many European minds, Jews were not seen as thinking, feeling fellow human beings but as objectified examples of an impersonal “type”. The concept of “the Jew” became the repository into which Jew-haters projected their personal insecurities, cravenness, misanthropic impulses and self-loathing.
Fast forward to the next century and another continent. Despite the best hopes, and years of education about the evils of racism, incitement to murder Jews has been resurrected, even in Australia, which has no history at all of official persecution of Jews.
The Executive Council of Australian Jewry, the peak representative body for Australian Jews, publishes an annual report on anti-Semitism in Australia, which documents anti-Semitic incidents.
The latest report, just released, reveals that in the year to September there were 230 anti-Semitic incidents reported, a 9.5 per cent increase.
The most prominent change has been the rise in extreme right-wing activity.
This new development has been predominantly through the formation of a neo-nazi group Antipodean Resistance in October last year. It originated in Melbourne but has spread to most states.
The activities of Antipodean Resistance are primarily of propaganda and recruitment. To this end, members of the group have been heavily involved in putting up thousands of Nazi swastika stickers and thousands of anti-Jewish, anti-homosexual and pro-Nazi posters, especially at universities, public places and in areas with numbers of Jewish residents.
These posters are not just run-of-the-mill agitprop. Two Antipodean Resistance posters demand “Legalise the execution of Jews” and call for the killing of homosexuals.
The posters have graphic images of shooting Jews and homosexuals in the head.
Other Antipodean Resistance posters vilify and demonise Jews, homosexuals, Chinese students and non-white immigrants.
Where has this resurrection of Nazi murder rhetoric come from?
During the past few years there has been a steady rise in far-right political activity in Europe and North America.
From proscribed neo-nazi terrorist group National Action in Britain (which Antipodean Resistance looks to for inspiration), to the mass rallies in Charlottesville, Virginia in August (in which a protester was killed by a far-right activist), and rallies in Poland of up to 60,000 ultranationalists (with many calling “Jews out!”) this month, neo-nazi and other extreme right groups are becoming increasingly active and emboldened.
Many blame US President Donald Trump, whose rhetoric and behaviour have indeed at times condoned and encouraged racist, sexist and bigoted sentiment.
Yet on the other side of the political spectrum British Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn also has shamefully tolerated and been accused of condoning anti-Semitism among the far left and Islamist groups he has courted.
However, the deterioration in the standards of discourse in conventional politics is a mere symptom of a deeper malaise simmering within Western society, brought about by growing technological disruption, economic inequality, job insecurity and xenophobia, and a contracting middle class.
The traditional social consensus about our democratic institutions and values is being undermined in the process. Intolerance, bigotry, hatred and violence increasingly rise through the cracks in the bedrock of society.
The Jewish community bears the brunt of this fracturing of society.
Because of the high incidence of physical attacks against Jews and Jewish communal buildings during the past three decades, and continuing threats in Australia, Jewish places of worship, schools, communal organisations and community centres need, for security reasons, to operate under the protection of armed guards, high fences, metal detectors, CCTV cameras and the like.
The Jewish community is the only community within Australia that has to live with such high levels of security.
The necessity is recognised by Australia’s law enforcement agencies and arises from the entrenched and protean nature of anti-Semitism in Western and Muslim culture.
As history has so often shown, when people can target Jews with impunity, in the street, in institutions or anywhere else, then sooner or later other sectors of society also will be targeted. Jews are said to be the “canary in the coalmine”.
The devastation wrought by racism and racially motivated violence may start with the Jews but it never ends with the Jews.
Julie Nathan is research officer for the Executive Council of Australian Jewry and author of the ECAJ anti-Semitism report.
↧
THIS IS AND WAS ECAJ!!!! by gs
On 25 Aug 2017 10:13 AM, "Geoff Seidner"<g87@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
From: g87Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 11:16 AMCc: Shimon CowenSubject: Fw: Dear Danny, Peter Wertheim, Julie Nathan of ECAJFrom: g87Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2013 2:28 PMSubject: Dear Danny, Peter Wertheim, Julie Nathan of ECAJCONFIDENTIAL
Dear Danny, Peter Wertheim, Julie Nathan of ECAJ
and Phillip Chester ZFA, Tzvi Fleischer and Colin R of AIJAC
Please pass on to Sam T of Zionist Council.
CC to I Leibler, Romy Leibler, Akiva Hamilton – Shurat Hadin
Shalom people!
STRENGTH TO YOUR ARM, AKIVA HAMILTON!
Re the ‘TO’ area above: I submit for your respective websites the article I had written some time ago.
Let there be no doubt that you will NOT publish it.
And I tell you that in terms of pure unadulterated humbug – nothing beats the last paragraph of today’s The Australian:
[I pasted it to a semi – secure blog, rarely used by me]
http://cognatebmpaz.blogspot.com.au/2013/11/anti-semitism-on -increase-oz-2811.html
Ms Nathan also spoke of the need for legal recourse to tackle vilification and hate, citing sections of the Racial Discrimination Act the government has pledged to repeal.
I refer to the scenario of legal recourse, of course.
Please be careful in responding: it may be better to ignore me for reasons not obvious
Kindly publish my essay without smart – alec comments – and we will see how many people support your stance.
Should you wish to make any comments – any of you are invited to do so in writting.
As an aside – I do wonder why the ‘silent majority’of our people have remained silent. You are challenged to comment and / or publish my article to enable those moribund of mind to understand what a con – job you have pulled!
Shalom
Geoff Seidner
As an aside: I recall Mr I Leibler wrote an article decimating the lamentable anti Israel writings of Jonathan Sacks in the AJN – 10 or so years ago. It was the only one.....
We will see whether he has the courage to lacerate you guys named in the ‘To’ area above
###########################
###############################
GOOD ON YOU, SHURAT HA DIN!!I am saddened that the usually esteemed ECAJ and other major Israel – supporting groups – ZFA and the Zionist Council of Victoria have not appreciated that their late October attempts at undermining the incipient legal action by Shuarat Hadin the Israeli Law Centre against the determined ‘boycotteers’, are dreadfully ill advised.There will be a directions hearing commencing in the Federal Court on Wednesday 27 November in the Federal Court. I refer to The Australian: November 25, 2013 which also correctly advises that:‘’Several prominent Australian Jewish academics -- including some who oppose BDS – manifestly back his [Lynch, Rees and University of Sydney] right to support it as an expression of academic freedom, and the Executive Council of Australian Jewry has disowned Shurat HaDin's action.’’
Am I reading this correctly?See also BDS Litigation “inappropriate” says ECAJ » J-Wire Oct 31, 2013It saddens me that The Oz is correct. I posit that basis the article in JWire and ECAJ website that our leading people resent action taken by Shurat Ha Din - and in the process fail to realize they somehow also manage to effectively support the BDS! Well may they claim that they oppose the BDS. It is meaningless codswallop to so claim and yet do everything to undermine the legal process which the Australian Jewish organizations should have started themselves.
And it gets worse - much worse.I understand they feel diminished because they did not act earlier before S.HaDin shamed them with action.It is expected that they will have disparate excuses for what I regard as almost essentially treacherous action on their [ECAJ] part. Arguably to justify their own unmasterly inactivity. Note carefully furthermore that in supporting boycotters’ rights under the aegis of ‘’academic freedom’’ – they plainly humiliate themselves? Non? It is plainly astonishing.I [GS] asked these Jewish mainstream organizations early November to explain the inarguable ‘’PATHETIC SITUATION THAT WILL POSSIBLY ENSURE
THAT THE JUDGE ADJUDICATING WILL BE AWARETHAT THE ENTIRE JEWISH / ZIONIST BUREAUCRACY SEEMS TO BE WORKING
AGAINST SHURAT HADIN, TO OUR MUTUAL DISADVANTAGE!!Exactly whose side are you guys on – I continued.Or is it do that not think things through!?
Surely if you cannot / will not help - why hinder?
What do you intend to say when your grandchildren ask: What
did you do in the war against the anti - Israel scourge of
this decade’’?There was no answer to this: indeed one of the 'troika' essentially admitted I
was right.How could it come to this? Our people using the favoured line of our enemies, for goodness sakes!Any or all of the troika could have done what Shurat Ha Din did. It begged to be done because primary or secondary boycotts are arguably illegal basis either commercial law or Racial Vilification law. Which the BDS plainly comprimizes. You guys should have chosen your weapons – instead you did the most demonstrable example of mealy – mouthed inaction dressed up as jealousy.Inverted humour attempted.But they did worse than nothing.Instead they publically criticised / vitiated Hamilton’s action. Certainly giving
oxygen to our enemies! Can I put in a few more exclamation marks!!?And putting it in the public domain – in spite of the fact that action against inarguable defacto Jew haters will have had greater prospects if it was not ‘kiboshed’ with self – serving selfishness.Now I have put this in the public domain myself – and appreciating that our enemies are reading this as well. You have forced my hand. Shame also on all of our
people who have allowed this to pass without comment. I have watched the cavalcade of nothingness for many weeks – pardon the oxymoronic insult.Maybe in some sort of rational world the judge will contemplate my humble words and accept that the ECAJ et al are simply wrong. It is rare – but it is possible for mainstream Jewish entities to be 'misguided'. Desperately wrong and pathetically misguided. I have never seen anything like this inane situation that The Australian and Shurat HaDin have been the only ones to stand up against the BDS promoters and our local organizations do matters adverse to Israel's interestTo those Jews who espouse that theirs may be a viable legal opinion – they should realize they are helping the same people who were quoted as railing against the London Declaration on anti semitism. [see below] Even if they are proven to be right – which is far from certain - it is irresponsible to do what they have done.Note Sydney University’s Peace Studies Prof. Rees on the London Declaration signed by all responsible parties: ‘’ it is childish, thoughtless but easily populist.’’This is what Rees wrote: Criticising Jew Hatred is ‘’childish’’! The Australian 15/5/13http://cognatesocialistdystopia.blogspot.com.au/2013/ 11/hhhhantisemitism-but- easily-populist.html And never mind the self – fulfilling prophecy which our Zionist organizations had chutzpah and ineptmodus in setting into motion. Devoid of notion. I wrote some poetry many years ago which when found will aptly designate this farce for what it is; in non – post modernist poetry.It is my understanding that holding ‘them’ to account is best achieved by threats and real world action through the courts: there has to be an understanding who
one is doing business with.Well - may the Executive Director Peter Wertheim in his article in Jwire 31/10 ‘’believe that the most appropriate and effective way....through public discourse’’Where is the evidence that anything anyone has said in civilized discourse has had any effect?Au contraire – the University of Sydney have a Sturt Rees who on 15 May this year was quoted by The Oz as being against governments signing the London Declaration against anti semitism!This is how far our enemies have taken it: who would have believed a few short years ago that 'they' would insist that railing against AS as ''childish thoughtless and easily populist''Note Wertheim’s waffle in his public pronouncement in seeking justification for his BDS stance in nation states signing the document is strained and and inarguably absurd..See below: it is self - contradictory tripe to suggest that the BDS promoters are allowed to have their day in court'' - and simultaneously vitiate same via suggesting they are against the action action to bring it to court is ''are opposed to litigation if it is pursued merely as a political tactic.”
Excuse me? This is ethereal nonsense to invert reality by criticising via the ‘political’ moniker.Excuse me Mr Wertheim - exactly how can it be anything but ''politics'?Maybe he can pursue legal action without subject matter? That would eliminate the political scenario!Pray explain what you say here: exactly how would you describe your comments: political, non? Do you resile from making political statements infavour of protecting Israel against the BDS? Exactly what do you do during the day? Support a motherhood version of politics?I suggest you get real as they say in the non – classicist world.It is all too absurd for serious discussion: I sometimes wonder how we won so many Nobel Prizes.The Syney University are the source of the infamous Sydney Peace Prize.... with infamous list of anti – Israel winners. They select them for their anti Israel stance - shamelessly.And our people select disingenuous verbiage as above and below to harm ourselves.And the Vice Chancellor of Sydney Uni has plainly never had any intention of doing anything about Rees or the chief boycoteer Lynch, the Professor of the Peace and Conflict Studies Centre at University of Sydney. I did not realize that their much – parodied nomenclature was still extant.Furthermore the idea to take viable legal action against those who would bedevil Israel is necessary. Surely the legal system will allow defence against evil incantations.
Contemplate what the gay or some entity turned against gays or Muslims? It would result in proverbial war or worse. And the ECAJ merely wants to continue asking them nicely to cease and desist?Surely legal action compares favourably with ECAJ fatuous attempts at ‘’exposure... its deceptive and sometimes racist rhetoric, methods...’’Where has it got you, Peter W? In my opinion there are two irrefutable ideas in this realm: only declaration of war or threat of legal action has ever been heeded by those who care not for civil discourse.Who is your hero – Churchill or Chamberlain? The analogy is appropriate. And if you want examples of viable real – world action via the courts compared withwaffled, plaintive bleating – tell me where have you seen examples of success with ‘’through public discourse.’’ ?I repeat:
- Look at Rees’ comment about the London anti semitism document : ‘’childish, thoughtless but easily populist.’’
- How misguided is the modus vivendi that ‘’....but we are opposed to litigation if it is pursued merely as a political tactic.”
But now we come to the arguable ultimate: Start Rees and Lynch have tried the astonishing and got away with it to date: they effectively refused access to theSir Zelman Cowen Scholarship to a Jew who was plainly helping the Palestinians!And of course Sir Zelman Cowen was the highly respected Jewish Governor – General!The Scholarship was / is being run by a Jewess Sue Freedman-Levy who has obviously not spoken up about this.Could someone help me understand how the Peace and ‘Conflated’ studies Centre through Lynch has the authority to control the Sir Zelman Cowen Scholarship?I do not want to call this chutzpah – because this minimizes it somehow.If only for this I wish Shurat Hadin well. Maybe one day I will see an article in mainstream media – not just JWire – that openly wonders at how professional Israel – Haters can refuse a ‘peacenik’ Jew access to the Sir Zelman Cowan scholarship.Never mind all the other matters in this epistle.And maybe someone at the ECAJ will admit that theirs was not a good idea!Geoff Seidner13 Alston Grove East St Kilda 318303 9525 929903 9 525 9290“The ECAJ believes that the most appropriate and effective way to combat the boycott campaign is to expose its deceptive and sometimes racist rhetoric, methods and aims public scrutiny. In our view, attempts to suppress the campaign through litigation are inappropriate and likely to be counter-productive. It is for this reason that the ECAJ has had no involvement in the action brought by Shurat HaDin and will continue to fight the boycott campaign through public discourse. If any individuals believe they have been adversely affected by racially discriminatory policies and practices of the Centre for Peace and Conflict Studies they are entitled to have their day in court, but we are opposed to litigation if it is pursued merely as a political tactic.”On 15/5 Professor S Rees of Sydney University thought the signing by more than 40 Parliamentarians of The London Declaration against anti semitism was ‘’childish, thoughtless but easily populist.’’Throughout it all we have the Vice Chancellor Spence seemingly vitiating the boycott – yet allowing it to be promoted at his University!The Executive Council of Australian Jewry has issued a statement detailing their reasons as to why they are not aligned with Israeli Human Rights group Shurat HaDin’s move to litigate against a NSW professor who advocates BDS against Israeli academics.Peter WertheimIn a prepared statement, executive director of The Executive Council of Australian Jewry, Peter Wertheim states: “The campaign to boycott academic and other contacts with Israel is repugnant to all who sincerely seek a just and lasting resolution of the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians,” said Peter Wertheim, the Executive Director of the Executive Council of Australian Jewry (ECAJ). “The path to a just peace is through mutual engagement, not vilification. Contacts between Israeli and Palestinian academics should be encouraged and facilitated by their Australian and other colleagues, not stigmatised.”The ECAJ has long been a vocal critic of the anti-Israel boycott campaign. “The boycott campaign is a calculated attempt to demonise, isolate and ultimately dismantle Israel through the distortion of international law and human rights. The hate-filled protests outside Max Brenner chocolate shops and the ill-considered scheme of Marrickville Council to boycott Israeli products at a cost of millions of dollars to its rate-payers, which was subsequently abandoned, have rightly been condemned and derided by most Australians. All major parties including the Greens, except for a handful of their MP’s, disavow the anti-Israel boycott campaign” Wertheim said.“The ECAJ believes that the most appropriate and effective way to combat the boycott campaign is to expose its deceptive and sometimes racist rhetoric, methods and aims public scrutiny. In our view, attempts to suppress the campaign through litigation are inappropriate and likely to be counter-productive. It is for this reason that the ECAJ has had no involvement in the action brought by Shurat HaDin and will continue to fight the boycott campaign through public discourse. If any individuals believe they have been adversely affected by racially discriminatory policies and practices of the Centre for Peace and Conflict Studies they are entitled to have their day in court, but we are opposed to litigation if it is pursued merely as a political tactic.”Asked whether he believes that all criticisms of Israel are antisemitic, Wertheim answered “No. Israel is a vibrant pluralist democracy and its citizens – Jews, Bedouin, Druze and other Israeli Arabs – are often its most incisive critics. But it is also false to suggest that no criticisms of Israel are antisemitic. There is clearly an overlap, as has been acknowledged by the European Agency for Fundamental Rights, the United Kingdom All-Party Parliamentary Inquiry into Antisemitism, the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe and the members of paBDS Litigation “inappropriate” says ECAJ » J-Wire
Oct 31, 2013 - In a prepared statement, executive director of The Executive Council of Australian Jewry, Peter Wertheim states: “The campaign to boycott ...rliament from many countries, including Australia, who have signed the London Declaration on Combating Antisemitism and the Ottawa Protocol on Combating Antisemitism.”Kindly note that essentially there is no need for me to send emails of my ‘works’ to most people on my lists: you need merely the links below.I will send emails from time to time for disparate reasons.Note my personal details:Geoff SeidnerTel: 03 9525 9299..... 03 9525 9290EMAIL: g87@optusnet.com.auAlternative email: geoffseidner@gmail.com############################################################ ############################## ############################ THESE TWO PAIRS OF BLOGS ARE THE ONES I USE CURRENTLY.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The pair of blogs below have essentially been discontinued fortechnical reasons.There are hundreds of entries of disparate current interest.http://cognatemediaspinners.blogspot.com.au/ From: g87Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 11:54 AMTo: Henry BenjaminSubject: Background to ARTICLE FOR JWIRE!! Good on you, Shurat Ha Din!Editor JwireHello BenjaminLINKS IMPORTANT BELOW!
RegardsGS************************************************** Note my personal details:Geoff SeidnerEast St Kilda 3183Tel: 03 9525 9299..... 03 9525 9290EMAIL: g87@optusnet.com.auAlternative email: geoffseidner@gmail.com############################################################ ############################## ############################ THESE TWO PAIRS OF BLOGS ARE THE ONES I USE CURRENTLY.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The pair of blogs below have essentially been ‘partially – discontinued’ formarginal / technical reasons.There are hundreds of entries of disparate current interest therein.############################################################ #######
############################################################ #####
http://www.scribd.com/doc/1598
67894/Shurat-HaDin-s-complaint -about-BDS
Shurat HaDin's complaint about BDS - Scribd
********************************** From:Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 1:43 AMTo: g87@optus.netSubject: FW: Israeli organisation sues Sydney academic over boycott supportAnd check out comments on https://newmatilda.com//2013/10/31/israeli-law-centre-sue s-outlaw-boycotts Don’t suggest you join the comments – they will just out swamp you with their blind bias and hatred.......From:
Sent: Sunday, 3 November 2013 1:26 AM
To: 'g87@optus.net'
Subject: Israeli organisation sues Sydney academic over boycott support
↧
↧
I refer to Julie Nathan and ECAJ!!!
▼ November (4)
- THIS IS AND WAS ECAJ!!!! by gs
- Attacks on Jews signal ,,,by Julie Nathan... ECAJ ...
- letters 2....
- letters 1 CONVOLUTIONS AND SPINNERS: JULIE NATHAN...
I refer to the pathetic article by Julie Nathan in The Australian on Monday 27/11/17
See item
2 above.
See on - line letters in The Australian 27 - 28/11/17 ''letters 1 - 2 above.
See that the Oz censored my on line comment: they have done this before!
Finally see that the ECAJ has 'history'!
THE ECAJ SHOULD SACK WERTHEIM AND JULIE NATHAN AS WELL:Danny Lamm should reclaim his old job!
Geoff Seidner
↧
EARLIER BRILLIANT J N PRICE!!!!!!Greens should just shut up and listen...august 16, 2017
Greens should just shut up and listen
When elders from the communities of Kununurra, Wyndham and Ceduna travelled to Canberra last week with a video revealing the appalling violence on their streets, they delivered a strong message. Those streets are war zones of drug and alcohol-fuelled assaults and child abuse — and they want it to stop.
The video, supported by West Australian mining businessman Andrew Forrest, proves the desperate need for the cashless debit card system that quarantines 80 per cent of welfare recipients’ payments to limit access to alcohol, drugs and gambling.
These elders are crying out for the lives of the children being assaulted and abused. In one of these communities, 187 children are victims of sexual abuse with 36 men facing 300 charges, and a further 124 are suspects.
I know all too well the deep frustrations these Australian citizens feel as they are desperate to save their people from the crisis being played out day after day in their communities. They have long fought for our political leaders to recognise the need to take the tough — sometimes unpopular but necessary — steps to make meaningful change that will save the lives of Aboriginal children, women and men.
So why do large numbers of our media and our political leaders (including some indigenous ones) fail to respond to such clear evidence of assault, child abuse and violence at the hands of our own people but are prepared to call for a royal commission when the perpetrator is a white person in uniform or when institutionalised racism is perceived to be at play?
A television report on the horrendous treatment of juvenile inmates at Darwin’s Don Dale Youth Detention Centre swiftly sparked a royal commission. Yet footage of an Aboriginal man stomping on an Aboriginal woman and various other vicious acts — which in my view are far more shocking than that of the Don Dale footage — draws criticism by the Greens that the video was simply propaganda for the cashless welfare card. This is not propaganda; it is proof.
WARNING: The video below contains graphic footage
We hear regularly that we should be listening to Aboriginal people on the ground to understand the complexities of the problems and to encourage us to find solutions for our horrific circumstances. Well, here is a video created by Aboriginal leaders in conjunction with the wider community, including the police and a mayor, pleading for the implementation of a practical measure to help curb the purchase of alcohol and drugs so the lives of the most marginalised Australians may be improved. No, it is not a magic bullet, but it is a start towards improving the lives of Australian citizens in crisis.
Forrest has been criticised for telling the world that he has been approached by minors willing to sell sex. A 14-year-old I know who roams Alice Springs streets at night regularly witnesses children selling themselves to “old” Aboriginal men for alcohol and cigarettes. We pass such information on to the police, who already know it is happening, yet the authorities responsible for these children tells us they have seen no evidence of it. Just as there was a conspiracy of silence to deny the reality of frontier violence, now there seems to be a conspiracy of silence on the left to deny what is happening openly in our streets.
The evidence of deep crisis has never been so blatant. This trauma is inflicted on our people by substance abuse and violence fuelled by a taxpayer-funded disposable income. However, if a rich white man throws his support behind a group of frustrated and desperate indigenous leaders living with this trauma their plea simply is dismissed as perverse by the politically correct without offering any effective alternative solutions.
The Greens call Forrest paternalistic, yet WA Greens senator Rachel Siewert has the audacity to tell indigenous people how we should think, what our problems are and what we should be doing about it. Siewert and her party chose not to meet the elders who came all the way to Canberra from their remote communities to communicate the real problems.
The Greens reaction is nothing more than the racism of low expectations and egocentric virtue-signalling of those toeing the line of an ideology that is further compounding the crisis. If the video shocked you, good. It should; and what should follow is an appropriate response that recognises the human right of Aboriginal women, children and men to live in safety, free of drug and alcohol-driven violence and sexual abuse. Sacrificing whole generations to violence and abuse does not help the fight against racism. It reinforces it.
Jacinta Nampijinpa Price is an Alice Springs councillor and a research associate at the Centre for Independent Studies.
- EXCLUSIVEAustralia’s richest man Anthony Pratt is strengthening his ties with Donald Trump after a meeting in Florida yesterday.
- WORLD COMMENTARYIndia is the elephant on its own subcontinent, but China is challenging its dominance.
- Elation turns to despair as Wild Oats XI loses Sydney to Hobart yacht race line honours on protest.
- A union push to restrict casual employment will strangle small and medium-sized retailers, the industry warns.
- A former staff member at Oakden aged mental healthcare facility has been stood down pending a police investigation.
- EXCLUSIVEChinese spies or Russian agents of influence may soon have the Australian Federal Police knocking on their door.
Reader comments on this site are moderated before publication to promote lively and civil debate. We encourage your comments but submitting one does not guarantee publication. We publish hundreds of comments daily, and if a comment is rejected it is likely because it does not meet with our comment guidelines, which you can read here. No correspondence will be entered into if a comment is declined.
413 COMMENTS
278 people listening
I saw the program and if the system that is being trialed works for them then it should be up to the Aboriginal Councils in their respective regions to be allowed to introduce it. For too long the Governments / Political parties have been trying to control the Indigenous peoples to the detriment of the people. I am all in favour of having a card like that right across the welfare sector as we have other people abusing the system along with their children / families as the money does not get through to where it should be spent in a lot of cases. if it limits the percentage they can spend on alcohol / cigarettes / gambling then I'm all for it as this is not what a benefit is paid for - it is for the basics of life.
Perhaps paternalism - at least when compared with the alternative - is not such a bad option.
The responses are as important as Councillor Price's article - it shows the range of views - from the naive to the practical to the acceptance of reality; but not enough seek,to listen or understand, so the Greens are only cashing in on the political opportunity to have a point of political difference, like too many other opportunists within the indigenous issues over the last 50 years.
Only when the left understand the damage they have done with their welfare and their imposition of their values on people who need leadership and compassion and not political opportunism.
Thanks Jacinta for a well-reasoned article based on your own first-hand knowledge and experience. We need more from you to help us understand what is really going on. As for the Greens, perhaps SHY could take her daughter on a taxpayer-funded tour of an indigenous community. She should be able to justify this in the same way she justified the whale-watching trip, and how good would it be if it actually opened her eyes to reality. Thanks Twiggy for using your money and influence to support this initiative.
Remember the basics card that operated in the N.T for seven years, that was found to be a total failure with no improvements in the drug or alcohol problems so why will this card work,? seems to me they have just revamped the same failed basics card and now call it the ' healthy welfare card' the only difference is the basics card allowed 50% of welfare in cash and the healthy welfare card allows 20%. .Also remember prohibition in the USA failed, people brewed their own moonshine alcohol , how will they stop that from happening
Twenty years in child protection, many around Aboriginal people who are almost unanimously saying, over and over again, what Jacinta is saying. Listen up. She is spot on. A useful way to use what she says is to use it as a benchmark for judging who is spouting sanctimonious twaddle and who isn't. Clue - she isn't.
This is tragic, and something needs to be done to help. It is unfortunate, though, that these numbers are used inappropriately by feminist organisations to paint all men with the domestic violence brush.
The chances of the inner city smug leftist elites ever being caught up in 'reality' seems to get more remote everyday. Jacinta is just so 'correct' it makes my heart bleed. Only when the nation finally goes broke and we all have to start again will this nonsense stop.
The Greens want Aboriginals illiterate, unemployed, addicted and slaves to (their) welfare system. This suits the neo-Marxist cause.
This comment has been deleted
@jim The real problem is not how funds are provided to these people, whether by cash or by basics card; it is the fact that any money is provided at all, with no expectation of any value being provided in return for it.
Self-esteem and personal pride in being able to provide for one's dependants, in some practical and tangible form, is what is lost when people are given money for nothing. The best solution is to take away all forms of assistance from white society, and let our indigenous peoples decide for themselves whether they want to actively participate in the modern world, or retreat to a hunter-gatherer existence living off the land eating kangaroo and witchetty grubs. Once that decision is made, the rest is easy. Those who choose to participate in modern society can access education the same as the whiteys, and make their own success. Those who choose to retreat to the lifestyle of their forebears, can retreat to the desert to do so - but with no access to alcohol or tobacco, or drugs, or petrol. There is no possible way that the current half-way solution will ever deliver the self-determination that our Aboriginals appear to seek.
I look forward to reading anything with Jacinta Nanpijinpa Price's name on it. Her articles are so informative and contain so much sense. I hope those in a position to do what she is advocating will listen and act for the sake of the children who are in such need.
Every article I have read from Jacinta has been insightful... I hope one day she runs for parliament - We need logical voices like her's when it comes to Indigenous Affairs
Jacinta I really do hope that you succeed in your endeavours. I know that what you are saying is correct as I have heard it directly from one of the women and elders of communities here in Queensland. Unfortunately the Greens are so sure of their superiority in all matters they cannot seem to comprehend that there might be a better way then their ideas of doing things. They have never seen groups of children sleeping out in the open under a street light, to be near the police where it is much safer than for them to go home. Labor of course is not game to offend the Greens who they rely on to get voted in. I really do wish you well in your endeavours to save your people from being decimated by sit down money.
We were holidaying in Point Sampson (northwest WA) and on the Friday night a horde of people descended on the caravan park. We were told that they all come from Pt Hedland because the place wasn't safe for their children on the weekends!
Jacinta speaks from experience & is the real voice of many concerned Aboriginals. It is just sad that the many left wing politicians & commentators just do not accept that they are so much a part of the problem by ignoring reality & then pushing things like Constitutional recognition, treaties etc when in fact the people need real help to overcome this continuous problems that they face. Some of us see these things in our own communities & know the truth. It is time the Greens & those of like mind actually got out of the road & allowed those who know the reality of the problems to be in a position to try to address them
Jacinta - you have shown leadership by bravely speaking up on behalf of Aboriginal children and communities. Thank you for explaining this situation to the wider community.
I rember well the Aboriginal Elder who said she was looking after her great grandchildren because their family had lost three generations to "the grog".
The old lady is dead now and I often wonder who is looking after those kids and their kids.
That video is really confronting. And its not filmed in a third world but in our country. We need to get smarter in the way we help the indigenous Australians. We have not made improvements in the last 20 or 30 years that I am aware of. We keep doing the same things over and over without anyone taking responsibility. We all have compassion to see things improve, but how do we as Australians, as voters find a way to help these people. A way that is lasting, allows for their dignity and pride to be re built, and kids to feel safe at home?
Maybe we have been succored into the softly softly approach. Compassion alone does not work. Indigenous alone cannot fix it. We need to get smarter and more determined to remove this problem which is a stain on our society every day that it continues.
Must we always wait to hear from Jacinta? Where are the Aboriginal members of parliament such as Dodgson, Birney et al. Suppose once you get to comfortable Canberra the problems in the sticks fade.
This is one lady Australia should be listening to. She tells it as it is. Have developed a high regard for her opinions. Hopefully our politicians have the sense to take note.
A senior Left senator and minister from WA told me about 15 years ago that the Left's policies in Aboriginal affairs had been an unmitigated disaster. He has never said that publically because he would be disowned. The herd mentality of the Left, and the ALP which it controls and the Liberal wets such as Fred Chaney, will ensure the same failed policies continue.
Prove me wrong Pat Dodson.
Jacinta saw you on Outsiders Mate. I would love to see the intercourse between you and the laughable Yarra Council about Australia Day.
Power to you on your path. Please consider partnering with Cory Bernardi.
Don, Norm's son.
The Greens get a lot things wrong. I resigned when they voted against an ETS (Emissions Trading Scheme). In Canberra they pressured Labor for trams to replace buses to get a slower, less frequent, no express services, further between stops and with half the seats of the present system. Now Canberra is going broke paying for steel wheels to replace rubber and the buses are going 100% electric anyway.
Jacinta has provided a powerful argument for change and good on her. I agree the more people out there who expose the hypocrisy of the left and their blatant politicisation of the plight of the less well off the better it will be for all of us.
But do the Greens and the left in general have the backbone to accept their paternalistic social experiments and their top down approach of imposing things on people has failed. It’s far better to accept that a bottom up approach of doing things with people tends to bring desirable change; but the left don’t like that idea because it’s a conservative one.
But lets hope positive change soon comes to these communities.
Can we hear now from decent people who have been voting for the Greens as to whether they support such left-wing ideology as to fail to address child sexual abuse and violence against aboriginal children and women, fueled by rampant alcohol and drug abuse?
Please step up here!
Please step up here!
This brings tears to my eyes - but also makes me so angry. There is something terribly wrong with Australia - that our leaders are so incompetent to address the real issues. They bang on about issues of no importance to the vast majority of the country's population whilst people continue to suffer - either through violence in these communities - or high electricity bills, or loss of jobs. It's like listening to the music whilst the ship sinks. Powerful stuff.
Well done Jacinta. Why is it ordinary people can get the problem but the learned high paid morons in Canberra can't. Lobby them to send their children to the country for a week & then we would get action!!!!
Once again Jacinta you have clearly written the truth. It seems that the luvies , Green or Left firmly believe that they know what's best for all of us and take their stance accordingly, the truth will to be adapted to fit their mindset.
Makes total sense. The Greens fervent opposition to this idea or ANYTHING that resembles common sense is breathtaking.
As usual everybody's pointing fingers calling each other racist and nobody is doing anything. Including me.
Jacinta showed her qualities on Outsiders last Sunday; she is a young lady of intelligence and charm.
It's reassuring to know that there are young people who have the integrity and foresight to take this nation into the future.
I saw Jacinta Price on a TV program last weekend, and wasn't she impressive. She actually spoke common sense . . . more than our pollies ever do . . . and she spoke from the heart about the plight of her people. She did not speak from the dogmatic position of the Greens/Labor (or loony Left if you prefer) that the only solution to Aboriginal problems is to throw money at it.
The hope of the aboriginal people of this nation are people like Jacinta Price (and Noel Pearson and other similar elders) taking charge for two reasons . . . the first is that their people will (hopefully) listen and recognise the possibilities for good changes; and the second is that those of who are whitefellas (like me) will support and admire people like Jacinta when they say what needs to be said.
Congratulations, Jacinta!
Why do people vote for the Greens. They want people to be exposed to self destruction without any input from the people who want to help themselves. I suppose the Greens know best.
The Left and the Greens knows what is good for us. I dont know why we bother with education and going to work. Just sit back and the left will deliver money to us and tell us how to live. The left is a sick joke.
There seems to be an absence of leadership on this and many other issues within the Aboriginal community. There is little agreement amongst prominent Aboriginal people about strategies and solutions to address issues that exist within some Aboriginal communities. However, these same prominent Aboriginals make it clear that only Aboriginal people can comment on and suggest ways to resolve these problems.
One concerns is that some of the prominent Aboriginal people who make up Aboriginal Inc are those who know that they profit from dysfunction and chaos - because that is what keeps them in a job and keeps the money flowing. Providing real and effective solutions to day-to-day problems doesn't seem to be the main aim for some who profess to be leaders of Aboriginal people.
@John I understand your point - and our tendency to stand back to allow Aborigines to manage their own issues. But it's not working. At some point, someone in power - white black, pink or brown - has to have the courage to stand up and show some leadership, saying "enough is enough" - and deal with the consequences. We expect immigrants to assimilate to the Australian way of life - and yet we don't expect Aboriginals to do the same - why? We're too frightened to offend? When 1/3 of children are being raped, we're too frightened to offend. Give me a break.
Well said. Well argued. On this issue alone and the first hand account of Green politician behaviour, how could anyone with a gram of compassion or integrity vote for the Greens? But they will, sitting there in their privileged inner city parallel dimension and they will conceitfully and self-indulgently believe they are helping to save the world. In truth they are just the unwitting targets of con-artists who have a quite different agenda.
But the children will still be suffering.
Jacinta, another excellent article. I think all working-age people who receive welfare should be using a cashless card, not just indigenous people.
Couldn't agree more. The abuse of the welfare system is rampant: the cashless card will force all recipients away from drugs & alcohol, terrific article Jacinta.
Well said. All Australians should be able to live in safety. It's about time that realistic solutions such as the cashless debit card are implemented to protect women, children and men in these communities.
Keep up the good work!
↧
SIMPLY THE BEST J N PRICE !!!! Cashless debit cards protect Aboriginal women and children DEC 26, 2017
Cashless debit cards protect Aboriginal women and children
The left seems to be increasingly more concerned with the rights of the individual when those individuals are alcoholics, addicts and abusers assaulting women and children — the rights of the victims themselves are ignored.
Empty rhetoric and vacuous, overused weasel words are used to bolster the argument against obviously effective tools such as the cashless debit card.
When those in the sheltered towers of academe — such as Melbourne’s Elise Klein in a recent article — denounce the CDC, they are in effect attacking voiceless, marginalised Australian women and children, enduring a life alien to those in virtue-signalling metropolitan coffee claques.
To witness Labor now align itself with the Greens and backflip on its bipartisan support for the CDC being trialled further afield can be likened to watching it supply dangerous drugs to an addict or weapons to a violent abuser. It seems the rights of the perpetrators come first.
In the Aboriginal tradition of thousands of years, the rights of the collective mob quashed the rights of the individual.
This was a matter of survival in a hunter-gatherer system. But we live in the modern age, in a modern country — informed by the Enlightenment’s upholding of the rights of the individual. And the CDC aims to defend those individual rights against the tyranny of the mob.
Yes, traditional society was based on a demand-share economy. Sharing reinforces kin relationships and boosts the status of the sharer. Men have higher status than women. They are less obliged than women to share. Before money, it was the only way people could expect to survive. Now, in a cash economy, it is an economic disaster easily descending into abusive “humbug”.
When applied to food distribution, theoretically everybody got to eat.
Even then, women sometimes missed out on their share if they were married to demanding and uncaring husbands.
Even the highly empathetic anthropologist Diane Austin-Broos in her book, Arrernte Present, Arrernte Past, admits that children sometimes are undernourished because their carers — wise and ethically minded elders — are so readily inclined to give money away to kin, especially adult male relatives, leaving less than enough to buy adequate food for dependent children.
The demand-share principle is deeply ingrained, taught from the beginning of life. Sharing is deeply emotionally satisfying, but it excludes the ability to budget, to plan and invest in the future.
Refusing to share can provoke verbal or physical assault. The acceptance of interpersonal violence in small-scale societies can lead to ferocious attacks on wives and to “granny bashing”, the young assaulting the old to obtain the means to finance addictions.
Many Aboriginal families have found ways to cope with being generous to kin, proud of their identity but also budgeting to feed and house their families. Most in the remote communities and town camps are trapped in poverty because of unquestioning loyalty to tradition.
Once, people lived in small family groups scattered across a vast country. Demand-share worked. Currently there is overcrowding and dangerous addiction. Addicts expect their kin to fund their addictions without question. This is disastrous.
Klein is selective in the research findings she accepts. She cites the rise in crime in the Kimberley under the CDC trial but ignores the rising crime levels in Broome, Derby and Fitzroy Crossing, where the card has not been trialled.
She does not know life in the regions where research has been carried out, or the culture lived there.
However, senators Malarndirri McCarthy and Patrick Dodson do understand this culture. So why, then, do these Labor politicians take advice from inner-city green academics who likely have never set foot in a town camp or lived in a remote community — where women’s and children’s lives are in daily danger?
They should both understand that the CDC helps recipients to combat their own addictions and allows them to say no to addicted kin. It helps them feed their children, and learn how to budget, and to pay their bills.
I know this because I live among it. Because I regularly talk to women affected by alcohol abuse and violence — and because they tell me the basics card and the CDC make their lives safer.
Jacinta Nampijinpa Price is an Alice Springs councillor and a research associate at the Centre for Independent Studies.
- EXCLUSIVEAustralia’s richest man Anthony Pratt is strengthening his ties with Donald Trump after a meeting in Florida yesterday.
- WORLD COMMENTARYIndia is the elephant on its own subcontinent, but China is challenging its dominance.
- Elation turns to despair as Wild Oats XI loses Sydney to Hobart yacht race line honours on protest.
- A union push to restrict casual employment will strangle small and medium-sized retailers, the industry warns.
- A former staff member at Oakden aged mental healthcare facility has been stood down pending a police investigation.
- EXCLUSIVEChinese spies or Russian agents of influence may soon have the Australian Federal Police knocking on their door.
Reader comments on this site are moderated before publication to promote lively and civil debate. We encourage your comments but submitting one does not guarantee publication. We publish hundreds of comments daily, and if a comment is rejected it is likely because it does not meet with our comment guidelines, which you can read here. No correspondence will be entered into if a comment is declined.
195 COMMENTS
172 people listening
Good on you Jacinta.
You stand out like the evening star, informed through experience and with the honesty and spirit to speak out.
In my opinion you are a beacon of hope for the Territory..
Hopefully without prejudicing my first statement I consider that Dodson and McCarthy have nothing to offer Australia.
We support you 100% Jacinta. This country needs people to tell the ugly truth, not hide behind political correct left wing ideology and to protect those that can't fight for themselves. The CDC is the answer.
Why isn’t this article in The Guardian, The Age or Koori Mail?
Oh that’s right, there are none so deaf ......
Most of the schemes for “assisting” Aboriginal Australians were setup by and designed to be exploited by the left hand side of politics with their lawyers, consultants and other leeches. Changing the status quo affects their multimillion dollar income streams - of course they will oppose.
Which collectively amount to billions of dollars each year. So many vested interests, so much money available .....
It is interesting watching the retorts from the left mainly Patricia and her cabal, here you are witnessing a classic case of trying to shut down the argument by verbal bullying as they are unable to mount a counter argument because the argument is coming from the very people they purport to support. This is because the left do not want the indigenous people to actual improve their lot. If they do there will be one less cause to bash main stream Australia with
We've been throwing money at this issue for years, and it hasn't worked. Why not try this ? Or are the lefties only pretending to care about people?
A good question...
Yes, enabling addicts is terribly wrong. When the Government is doing the enabling, then the women and children are in real trouble.
Once again we have city based academics and interlopers having a say in a policy matter that has no material affect on their lives , however a massive impact on the lives of Aboriginal women & children, as described by Jacinta.
I'd like to use some choice words in telling these people where to go, however I shall refrain and say to the inner city charlatans & interlopers. just this: If you want to have a say on CDC program, get your butts to these remote communities so you can live & earn your living there. until such time, MYOB !
Jacinta Nampijinpa Price, you are a star.
The only long-term solution is for indigenous people to have the same property rights and normal local government representation as anyone else. Imagine patronising any other section of the communIty - say Vietnamese or Italian Australians - with a special government department that organises their housing and income. Just abhorrent. It robs people of their autonomy and self-respect.
Hang on. Aren't we supposed to idolise Indigenous culture as something special? I don't understand?
Thank you Jacinta for bringing a perspective from the field rather than an ivory tower paid for by hard earned taxpayers money.
Most of the biggest policy failures and wars have been lost trought instructions from ivory towers rather than input from the field
Like your mother, Jacinta, you are a wise soul. You both belong in Parliament, along with Warren Mundine. Then we might just make some inroads.
The only concern for the left is their ideology and its rhetoric, no more no left. Because of that, they could trash their nation, or anyone, any victims for a victory of their ideology. For this reason, they could not see any victims who is being crushed and suffered under their ideologically guided actions. How could they prioritize victims?
The left are the brainwashed and heartless family of the Human sapiens species. These organisms often live and thrive in the inner-city, cluttering around academic institutions like universities, very active in interfering and sabotaging the cohesion of the society or communities, ideologically guided by their very tunnel vision. They can be undergraduates or professors, or greens politicians..... They usually don't really work for a living in the real world.
Van cam, you are spot on, these left wing undergraduates, or professors or Green politicians are just leeches. What they say might sound good but it is "all about care, with no responsibility"
No doubt Ms Price will be thrilled at the Charity Advocacy Laws being perpertrated by Australia's enemies of democracy.
Mr Turnbull. who has dozens and dozens of empty bedrooms at this disposal, spoke of love while he served the homeless on Christmas Day.
Mr Turnbull's Govenrment is perpetrating laws that STOP people like Ms Price from speaking out if they are members of an Indigenous Charity.
Spot the heartless mockery, the cynicism, and the blatant undermining of Australian free speech.
Of course the foreign owners of Australian mining industry will be able to spend tens of millions on subverting our democracy any time they choose.
Ms Price is following Mr Pearson into the Hard Right sucker trap.
You will be betrayed, Ms Price.
The only open question is, 'When?'
You really do operate in a parallel universe Patrica. Having recently stayed in Ceduna where the cashless card is in use, it is a changed place. The decent people black and white who want to give their children a fair start in life won’t agree with you.
@Patricia So Patricia judging by the dribble you have just written you are in support of the alcohol abuse the bashings and so forth. In this argument you can sit on the fence.
We can sleep easily as we have Patricia as our democratic messiah. The CDC is working a concept foreign to Get Up! It must be therefore opposed at all cost. They indigenous must be kept as victims as it suits the comrade narrative of oppression by the wicked capitalist state.
This is a voice in the wilderness, I suspect. If those in virtue-signalling metropolitan coffee claques and acaedemia have their agendas (destroy the government), then they will not be listening to her. It is good that you have published this.
Great article Jacinta. The priority should be on stopping the violence and protecting vulnerable women, children and elders.
It is time to stop respecting these inappropriate Aboringnal traditions. Just because it is the way things were done is no reason to give it any respect now. The time has come to tell the truth and call out the abysmal failure the government supported Aboringinal handout schemes are working. Children and women are dying because inner city greens and socialists want to feel good. End the BS and listen to the ones who know. I have seen this totally dysfunctional system myself and we should all be very ashamed of what we are allowing to happen.
If the CDC makes life better for the abused then what would the ALP or Greens have to virtue signal about? I suspect their refusal of the CDC is more about their survival and not the survival of the abused.
@Mark Labor and the Greens are doing what they have always done. They highlight what they see as a problem of national significance and then do nothing about it. When the Coalition wins office they do do something about it, like they did with buying frigates and other warships, gay marriage and the republic referendum, etc; and then Labor decides that it is in their interest to backflip on the policy, accuse the government of burning money and try to gain some electoral leverage from it.
It's all about politics with Labor, never solutions. This current crop make Chifley, Hawke and Keating look better with every waking moment.
Show More Comments
jmkgvjhf
↧
letters the oz dec 29 2017...a tale of 2 letters...
Victoria Police seem to be ignoring reality, hoping it’ll go away
It appears that Victoria Police denial (“No ethic gang link to crime, say police”, 28/12) is an example of ignoring an obvious problem and hoping that by denying it for long enough, the problem will go away.
The media has reported over recent months, with the exception of the ABC, it is plainly a problem created by youths of African appearance as police have been prone to admit on the rare occasions when CCTV equipment has shown obvious ethics links of the perpetrators.
Denying that a problem exists reinforces growing public perception that the police hierarchy have become captive to political correctness that has become rampant in Victoria.
I am delighted The Australian is taking a hard line on political correctness in Australia and publishing readers’ comments and articles criticising the trend. The latest news from Victoria emphasises how political correctness can be used to distort the truth.
Victorians can see on a daily basis the criminal behaviour of these African gangs, and yet Victoria Police are denying the fact. What will it take to force Victoria Police to admit the truth, I wonder?
Social conundrum
Steve Chavura sensibly concludes that “balancing inclusiveness with freedom of speech and other liberal rights” is a worthy effort (“Beware the martinets who would silence all debate” 27/12).
Yet, the issue remains unresolved purely for the reason that the conflicting forces identified as the cause of our conundrum are ill-defined or even misunderstood. Freedoms relate strictly to the formation, upkeep and compliance with the law.
Inclusiveness is an amorphous, indefinable, evolving societal phenomenon concerning ways of behaviour and expected levels of tolerance and human response to the many forms of communal issues that have been the bane of civilisations.
Whereas a freedom is a reference to the degree by which a legal system does not impose a prohibition of action, matters of social interactivity involving individual preferences with respect to daily life were never the province of the secular legal system.
It is the loss of control of the legal system, including the capacity to dictate what is essentially free and what is not, steering it into the morass of cultural wars that were fought and resolved by the citizenry itself, that is the exclusive cause of the conundrum which is impossible to resolve.
Card’s mixed evaluation
Jacinta Nampijinpa Price’s opinion (“Debit cards protect Aboriginal women and children”, 26/12) conflated the basics card with the cashless debit card. The former introduced in 2007 has been shown to make no discernible difference in rigorous independent evaluation published in 2014 and cost more than $1 billion to implement. So much for value.
The CDC, trialled since 2016 in Ceduna and the East Kimberley (not in Alice Springs), has had mixed evaluation. Price chooses to attack Elise Klein for her evidence-based critique of the CDC trial in Kununurra, but ignores a growing number of reputable studies that highlight possible unintended harm to Aboriginal children including in lower school attendance and nutrition and weight.
There are better ways to spend public funds to address what are ultimately problems associated with deepening poverty among remote indigenous Australians, despite the rhetoric of closing the gap.
Mao’s drug war
Supervised injection centres to reduce harm from heroin make as much sense as special roads reserved for drunk drivers (“What happened in the war on drugs? Drugs won”, 28/12). The war on drugs hasn’t been lost — it has never been properly waged.
China had freely available opium and heroin during World War II, courtesy of the Japanese. The result was 10 million addicts in Manchuria’s population of 30 million. Mao Zedong instituted the death penalty for drug traffickers, with detoxification and rehabilitation for users. Those who did not comply were jailed. He won that war.
Unionist’s priorities
If Sally McManus wants to achieve any credibility, instead of attacking the definition of casual workers she should address the enterprise bargaining agreements struck primarily by unions that quite simply line union pockets to the workers’ detriment.
She could also elect to review other widespread rorting of worker’s superannuation contributions that line union and, in turn, Labor coffers.
↧
↧
PVO 1 Dec 22, 2013...HE IS A MENSCH!
Peter Van 0nselen is a decent individual who is prepared to defend himself appropriately.
I am posting this range of correspondences as a matter of record and a continuum / context re other matters.
HE IS A MENSCH!
--
--
I am posting this range of correspondences as a matter of record and a continuum / context re other matters.
HE IS A MENSCH!
mensch
mɛnʃ/
noun
NORTH AMERICANinformal
- a person of integrity and honour.
Mensch - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mensch
Mensch (Yiddish: מענטש mentsh, cognate with the German word Mensch meaning a "human being") means "a person of integrity and honor". The opposite of a "mensch" is an "unmensch", meaning an utterly unlikeable or unfriendly person.
Illustration: Eric Lobbecke Source: TheAustralian
ALL you can do is laugh at the hypocritical actions of the first law officer, Attorney-General George Brandis QC, and his opposition counterpart, Mark Dreyfus QC, himself attorney-general in the previous Labor government, when it comes to appointments and the pair's commentary on those appointments.
The two men are no strangers to hypocrisy, having used inflated rhetoric to condemn others for entitlements abuses before themselves being caught out for not dissimilar failings. But the pair's commentary about two recent appointments to the Australian Human Rights Commission reads as if it were torn from the pages of a Yes Minister script.
Last July, Dreyfus appointed 31-year-old Tim Soutphommasane to the AHRC. Brandis slammed the appointment, describing Soutphommasane as an "overt partisan of the Labor Party", adding that "appointees must be people who can command the confidence of the entire community that they will discharge their responsibilities in the human rights field in a non-partisan manner".
Soutphommasane was a member of the Labor Party and an active voice for the Left, appearing regularly on the political talk-show circuit. He was also a fellow at the left-leaning think tank Per Capita. Dreyfus rejected the Brandis attack, arguing Soutphommasane was well qualified for the role. I'll come to that misnomer in a moment. It is worth noting that Soutphommasane was an entry-level academic (albeit a very good one) when he was appointed to a role previously held by judges and former federal ministers.
This week Brandis made his first AHRC appointment, selecting 33-year-old Tim Wilson, a director at the right-wing (it sees itself as "free market") think tank the Institute of Public Affairs.
All of a sudden Brandis no longer thought it important that appointees "discharge their responsibilities in the human rights field in a non-partisan manner", as he had previously said. Equally, having condemned Dreyfus for making the Soutphommasane appointment late in Labor's term without consulting the opposition before doing so, Brandis announced Wilson's appointment to the AHRC before the Governor-General had even formally signed off on it. Brandis's high bar for due process was suddenly forgotten.
What was Dreyfus's reaction to the Wilson appointment? He said it was "dubious to say the least", attacking Wilson's partisanship (until the appointment Wilson was a member of the Liberal Party). How can Brandis and Dreyfus expect people to take them seriously? By all means condemn a partisan appointment by your political opponents, but don't then make one yourself. By all means make partisan appointments, but for God's sake shut up when your opponents go on to do likewise.
The sad thing about Dreyfus and Brandis is that they are supposed to be the adults in any room: former senior members of the bar and now senior frontbenchers within their parliamentary parties. Prior to Brandis and Dreyfus demeaning themselves, I would have argued that the biggest complaint anyone should have with the Wilson and Soutphommasane appointments is that with a base salary of more than $320,000 a year, surely candidates should have CVs to match the likes of a Brandis or Dreyfus to even be considered for positions on the AHRC.
In truth, the reason appointees to the commission no longer live up to the pedigree of past commissioners is because the AHRC has been exposed as nothing more than a lobbying arm of the public service, and an expensive one at that. The Fraser government set up the AHRC as an almost quasi-judicial body that would have the power to enforce rulings on issues within its ambit. But a 1995 High Court judgment stripped the commission of the power to make and enforce decisions, turning it into a toothless tiger. Hence the AHRC no longer conducts hearings.
The limited role of the AHRC today is what brings into question the $25 million it costs each year to run. It isn't just the salaries of the commissioners that are expensive and no longer justifiable. The entire apparatus takes rent-seeking to a new level. You have to love the irony that in the same week that Treasurer Joe Hockey talked about the need to reduce the size of government when releasing his mid-year economic and fiscal outlook, the Attorney-General makes a new appointment to a body he had previously (privately) canvassed abolishing.
It is hard to justify the salaries of commissioners being tied to those of judges, now the role of the AHRC has been downgraded. The calibre of appointments isn't what it once was. There are exceptions: Sex Discrimination Commissioner Elizabeth Broderick, a former law partner, is one. Another is Gillian Triggs, a former dean of law at the University of Sydney. But for the most part finding senior practitioners to fill AHRC roles is increasingly hard to do now the functions of the commission centre around a glorified form of lobbying and public advocacy. And with this shift the likes of Soutphommasane and Wilson become ideally suited to becoming commissioners: able to hit the airwaves to mount arguments in the policy areas they have been assigned.
The question for taxpayers is: why are we now paying for them to do pretty much what they already had been doing, at a cheaper price, when they were paid by their ideologically driven organisations? A new conservative government was always likely to counterbalance years of left-wing appointments to the AHRC with right-wing appointments of its own. A strong conservative government, however, would simply have abolished the commission and saved the money.
There is nothing the AHRC does that can't be done by advocacy groups within academia, the non-government sector or even government departments. Equally, the toothless reports the AHRC produces could just as easily be done by the Ombudsman, only with much greater powers to investigate before publishing findings.
If the AHRC has to exist at all, Wilson's appointment at least starts the process of balancing up the organisation. Were it a truly quasi-judicial body such ideological thinking wouldn't much matter, but as a body for public advocacy it certainly does.
Peter van Onselen is a professor at the University of Western Australia.
Geoff Seidner
13 Alston Grove East St Kilda 3183
613 9525 9299
13 Alston Grove East St Kilda 3183
613 9525 9299
↧
PVO 2... 22/12/13..calls GS 'unhinged'
Hi there,
You sound rather unhinged, I hope things all come together for you in the years ahead
All the best
Peter
Sent from my iPad
Sent from my iPad
Begin forwarded message:
From: Peter Van Onselen <peter.vanonselen@uwa.edu.au>
Date: 22 December 2013 11:58:25 AM AEDT
To: "vanonselenp@theaustralian.com.au"<vanonselenp@theaustralian. com.au>
Subject: FW: PVO IS A FOOL
G87@OPTUSNET.COM.AU
This message and its attachments may contain legally privileged or confidential information. It is intended solely for the named addressee. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message or responsible for delivery of the message to the addressee, you may not copy or deliver this message or its attachments to anyone. Rather, you should permanently delete this message and its attachments and kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail. Any content of this message and its attachments which does not relate to the official business of the sending company must be taken not to have been sent or endorsed by that company or any of its related entities. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachments are free from computer virus or other defect.
Geoff Seidner
13 Alston Grove East St Kilda 3183
613 9525 9299
13 Alston Grove East St Kilda 3183
613 9525 9299
↧
PVO3.... we are getting friendlier...DEC 23, 10 35 am
Hi Geoff
I won’t read it but wish you the best with your thoughts, I just don’t have time, or the energy, to read that kind of stuff, no offence.
Re Brandis, yes he challenged my claim that Tim W is a partisan, but I invite you and Brandis to actually look up the definition of the word ‘partisan’. Once you do you will see even in his letter today Mr Brandis accidently pointed out that Tim is in fact a partisan. But let me also point this out to you – I assume you are able to see the logic of it – if Tim W isn’t partisan, bc as Brandis says he from time to time doesn’t follow the party line of his political party, what was Brandis doing calling Tim S a partisan, seeing as Tim S also doesn’t always follow the party line of his party – eg on refugees and immigration matters? Very funny that the AG couldn’t see that was where his logic took him…Ooops!
Best
Peter
From: g87 [mailto:g87@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: Monday, 23 December 2013 9:29 AM
To: Van Onselen, Peter
Subject: Greetings PVO
Sent: Monday, 23 December 2013 9:29 AM
To: Van Onselen, Peter
Subject: Greetings PVO
Greetings, PVO
Thanks for your comments.
Under the circumstances there is no way I wish to create a problem by communicating with you by further on this subject: I guess any subject.
You could take it as harassment – and unless you so indicate to the contrary you may need to merely secretly look at my blog from time to time. It will rapidly move from PVO soon. May you write quality items with considered thought in future.
Note that the Attorney General George Brandis has also taken you to task this morning in The Australian. He is being generous to you: he is a politician after all. Maybe I too should have been ‘generous’. There are so many twirps of the left: why did I pick on you?
However I promise not to tell if you have a ‘decko’ at my next few entries on my blog.
Humour attempted.
Regards
Geoff Seidner
Hi there,
You sound rather unhinged, I hope things all come together for you in the years ahead
All the best
Peter
Sent from my iPad
Sent from my iPad
Begin forwarded message:
From: Peter Van Onselen <peter.vanonselen@uwa.edu.au>
Date: 22 December 2013 11:58:25 AM AEDT
To: "vanonselenp@theaustralian.com.au"<vanonselenp@theaustralian. com.au>
Subject: FW: PVO IS A FOOL
This message and its attachments may contain legally privileged or confidential information. It is intended solely for the named addressee. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message or responsible for delivery of the message to the addressee, you may not copy or deliver this message or its attachments to anyone. Rather, you should permanently delete this message and its attachments and kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail. Any content of this message and its attachments which does not relate to the official business of the sending company must be taken not to have been sent or endorsed by that company or any of its related entities. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachments are free from computer virus or other defect.
Geoff Seidner
13 Alston Grove East St Kilda 3183
613 9525 9299
13 Alston Grove East St Kilda 3183
613 9525 9299
↧
PVO 4
From: g87
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 4:10 PM
Subject: PVO responds again: Of Viccisitudes and muting the....
Geoff Seidner
13 Alston Grove East St Kilda 3183
613 9525 9299
13 Alston Grove East St Kilda 3183
613 9525 9299
↧
↧
PVO 5 ...Ex Catalaxy dec 29 2013
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Geoff Seidner <myemail99@optusnet.com.au>
Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 9:14 AM
Subject: dec 29 2013 11.11 am catalaxy Fw: [New post] PVOs watch list for 2014
To: geoffseidner@gmail.com
![]()
From: Geoff Seidner <myemail99@optusnet.com.au>
Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 9:14 AM
Subject: dec 29 2013 11.11 am catalaxy Fw: [New post] PVOs watch list for 2014
To: geoffseidner@gmail.com
From: Catallaxy Files
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 11:11 AM
Subject: [New post] PVOs watch list for 2014
Geoff Seidner
13 Alston Grove East St Kilda 3183
613 9525 9299
13 Alston Grove East St Kilda 3183
613 9525 9299
↧
PVO 6 hello again pvo dec 29
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Geoff Seidner <myemail99@optusnet.com.au>
Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 9:16 AM
Subject: dec 29 2.41 am Hello again PVO!
To: geoffseidner@gmail.com
December (66)
From: Geoff Seidner <myemail99@optusnet.com.au>
Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 9:16 AM
Subject: dec 29 2.41 am Hello again PVO!
To: geoffseidner@gmail.com
Hello Peter
Congratulations,
You have in your two recent articles given me enough incentive to base a major essay, thesis, monograph or even a book on the subject of
MEDIA MANIPULATION AND INSULTS TO THE INTELLIGENCE.
I may change the nomenclature – but methinks some people may recognize that it will be based on the
WINTROP PROFESSOR OF JOURNALISM AT WA UNI.
I will send you advance copies as I write it: you may be prepared to comment on salient segments.
Oh – by the way – I will try to find room for Emmerson: remember him?
His article is right next to yours in Saturday’s Oz.
Yours Sincerely
Geoff Seidner
- PVO - 28/12 ..A lesson for Brandis on the meaning ...
- Emmerson 28/12: Deep thinker says subs are the sol...
- GS: 29/12 LYNCH AND MEALY - MOUTHED PHRASES OF RAC...
- Complete Catalaxy and comments re Dreyfus and Tr...
- Att: M Dreyfus: brilliant Catalaxy re disgraceful ...
- J'ACCUSE Mark Dreyfus of weakness
- 24/12 -Lauren Wilson.. Brandis fends off demands t...
- BRANDIS [et al] RESPOND/S TO PVO 23/12
- PVO responds again: Of Viccisitudes and muting the...
- PVO RESPONDS - Greetings, PVO
- PVO IS ALSO A FOOL
- The ultimate Labored fool - Emmerson???
Geoff Seidner
13 Alston Grove East St Kilda 3183
613 9525 9299
13 Alston Grove East St Kilda 3183
613 9525 9299
↧
PVO 7 Skynews APRIL 4, 2012
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Geoff Seidner <myemail99@optusnet.com.au>
Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 9:23 AM
Subject: gs to skynews...april 4 2012 1.07pm RE PETER VAn ONSELEN and Emmerson on Skynews
To: geoffseidner@gmail.com
From: Geoff Seidner <myemail99@optusnet.com.au>
Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 9:23 AM
Subject: gs to skynews...april 4 2012 1.07pm RE PETER VAn ONSELEN and Emmerson on Skynews
To: geoffseidner@gmail.com
From: g87
Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 1:07 PM
Subject: RE PETER VAn ONSELEN and Emmerson on Skynews
Ian Ferguson,
News Director
Skynews,
Dear Mr Ferguson
As per our brief conversation at approx 12 25 pm - a few mins ago today.
I wish to complain about Peter Van Onselen's plainly pathetic - essentially apologetic interview with Minister Craig Emmerson.
Skynews Tuesday 4/4/12
8 .10 pm??
The following didactic points are made hereunder.
Van Onselen made a few pre - interview 'editorial' comments about Labor's discreditable actions re The ABC / SKY Fiasco - and maybe Craig Thompson scam.
It was the only semi - worthwhile thing he did: but Emmerson had no reason to answer - he was conveniently not there!
This was clearly a pathetic attempt to say something which had no gravitas / implications re the interview whatsoever!
I could impeach it in disparate ways - but what is the point?
Certainly ask him why some matters material he dared not mention to Emmerson!
He was apologetic to Emmerson for having to MENTION UNMENTIONABLES: NOT _ NICE THINGS!!!
Pathetically - this is a reasonable synopsis - VO was mentioning that he really only wanted to talk about China - and sought his understanding - DULY GIVEN!!!
THE TEXT WILL VERIFY ALL!!
He gave Emmerson a pathetic free kick which Emmerson effusively, enthusiastically took!!
Methinks it was an oblique comparison of an earlier event!!
INEXCUSABLE: ARE THESE TWO CLOSE FRIENDS??
Emmerson and Craig Thompson are flatmates: it showed!!
I request that you kindly send me a transcript of this lame interview.
Also inform me as to how to obtain this online - in future.
I am not familiar with your site.
Compare with ABC TV 7 30 Uhlman interview last night - for cute, ironical example!!
And there is much more: you should read The Australian today and over the past 10 days - PVO may glean interview skills from the content of the OZ.
It probably has 40 plus 'unkind' articles - it is indeed the EVIL MEDIA - AKA THAT ALIEN BOB BROWN,,,,,
Please pass this on to Peter VO. FOR HIM TO DEFEND HIMSELF!
His performances simultaneously almost bemuse and infuriate me.
It varies between the pathetic and the acceptable - depending on how he feels about being seen as a former Liberal staffer - and his ostensible need to curry favor with the Gillard government.
If Labor has made scores of catastrophic disasters and hundreds of mere stupidities - it is time PVO forgot his biases and simply acted professionally.
I have a blogsite that you may care to view: it needs improvements - but not of the intellectual kind!
Thank you
Geoff Seidner
Geoff Seidner
13 Alston Grove East St Kilda 3183
613 9525 9299
13 Alston Grove East St Kilda 3183
613 9525 9299
↧
PVO 8 CATALAXY MAY 2013
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Geoff Seidner <myemail99@optusnet.com.au>
Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 9:23 AM
Subject: Fw: [New post] Can Peter van Onselen count?
To: geoffseidner@gmail.com
![]()
From: Geoff Seidner <myemail99@optusnet.com.au>
Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 9:23 AM
Subject: Fw: [New post] Can Peter van Onselen count?
To: geoffseidner@gmail.com
From: Catallaxy Files
Sent: Monday, May 6, 2013 2:56 AM
Subject: [New post] Can Peter van Onselen count?
Geoff Seidner
13 Alston Grove East St Kilda 3183
613 9525 9299
13 Alston Grove East St Kilda 3183
613 9525 9299
↧
↧
PVO 9 Catalaxy JUNE 2013
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Geoff Seidner <myemail99@optusnet.com.au>
Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 9:24 AM
Subject: Fw: [New post] Is Peter van Onselen Rudd’s campaign manager?
To: geoffseidner@gmail.com
![]()
From: Geoff Seidner <myemail99@optusnet.com.au>
Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 9:24 AM
Subject: Fw: [New post] Is Peter van Onselen Rudd’s campaign manager?
To: geoffseidner@gmail.com
From: Catallaxy Files
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 7:13 PM
Subject: [New post] Is Peter van Onselen Rudd’s campaign manager?
Geoff Seidner
13 Alston Grove East St Kilda 3183
613 9525 9299
13 Alston Grove East St Kilda 3183
613 9525 9299
↧
PVO 10 WITH MARK BUTTLER...SKY.. JULY 2013
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Geoff Seidner <myemail99@optusnet.com.au>
Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 9:25 AM
Subject: Fw: MARK BUTLER TRANSCRIPT - INTERVIEW WITH PETER VAN ONSELEN AND PAUL KELLY SKY AUSTRALIAN AGENDA - CLIMATE CHANGE [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
To: geoffseidner@gmail.com
![]()
If you have received this transmission in error please notify us immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. If this e-mail or any attachments have been sent to you in error, that error does not constitute waiver of any confidentiality, privilege or copyright in respect of information in the e-mail or attachments. Please consider the environment before printing this email.
From: Geoff Seidner <myemail99@optusnet.com.au>
Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 9:25 AM
Subject: Fw: MARK BUTLER TRANSCRIPT - INTERVIEW WITH PETER VAN ONSELEN AND PAUL KELLY SKY AUSTRALIAN AGENDA - CLIMATE CHANGE [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
To: geoffseidner@gmail.com
From: Palmer, Karen
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2013 5:36 PM
To: Palmer, Karen
Subject: MARK BUTLER TRANSCRIPT - INTERVIEW WITH PETER VAN ONSELEN AND PAUL KELLY SKY AUSTRALIAN AGENDA - CLIMATE CHANGE [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
The Hon Mark Butler MP
Minister for Climate Change
Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Water
TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW SKY AUSTRALIAN AGENDA WITH
PETER VAN ONSELEN AND PAUL KELLY
21 July 2013
Topics: Asylum Seekers, Climate Change, FBT
PETER VAN ONSELEN: To discuss the issue of climate change first up, we're joined now out of Adelaide by the Climate Change Minister Mark Butler. Mr Butler, welcome to the program.
MARK BUTLER: Morning, Peter.
PETER VAN ONSELEN: We are going to focus, obviously, on climate change, but just a quick question to start if I can, on this announcement from Friday in relation to the boats. You're a senior factional member of the Labor Party left. There has to be some disquiet, doesn't there, within the broad Labor movement - but certainly within the left you would think - about a policy that appears to be as harsh as this, as Paul Kelly talks about?
MARK BUTLER: Well I think the Prime Minister was pretty frank at the announcement on Friday - there would be people within the Labor movement and the Labor Party, and the broader community, who would feel uncomfortable with this. But in my discussions with some people over the last couple of days, although you know, there is a level of discomfort about some aspects of this, there is also a very strong and clear recognition that something very different needs to be done.
PAUL KELLY: Just on that point Minister, given the appalling nature of the detention conditions in Papua New Guinea, are you prepared to live with the idea that women, and children and family groups will be sent there to those conditions?
MARK BUTLER: Well I think a range of these details will be fleshed out, and I know you're talking to Bob Carr who's had much more involvement in these arrangements than I have. But the Prime Minister again made clear on Friday that there'd be very strong supports put in place for these resettlement arrangements in PNG in terms of health services, education services and the like. Over coming days and weeks I'm sure we'll see details of that fleshed out. But I know there's a very broad recognition, including by the Prime Minister and Minister Burke and I'm sure Minister Carr, that PNG is going to need - and deserves - some assistance from Australia in some of those services.
PETER VAN ONSELEN: We will pass that political hot potato on to Bob Carr after the break where we'll talk to him about it. Let's move on if we can, to your portfolio area of climate change. It's rhetoric gone over the top, isn't it, for Kevin Rudd to describe himself as the terminator of the carbon tax? At the end of the day, all that's happening here is the floating price is being brought forward by twelve months, and that's only happening if the Government actually changes legislation, and that's unlikely to happen before the election. We're just talking about an election promise here, rather than any actual change, aren't we?
MARK BUTLER: Well I'm not sure I've ever heard Kevin Rudd call himself The Terminator. We have said we're terminating the carbon tax, that is the description given to the fixed-price arrangement by many in the community, and most in the media, Peter and Paul. And to be very clear, that arrangement under a Labor Government will be terminated and we'll be moving more quickly than otherwise would have been the case to an emissions trading scheme. A scheme that for the first time, introduces an actual cap on the amount of carbon pollution that can be dumped into the atmosphere, and allows businesses to work out the proper price.
PETER VAN ONSELEN: Don't you need to go to Parliament before the election to show voters that you're fair dinkum about this? I mean recalling Parliament, and trying to get this through the Senate, whether you succeed or fail depending on what the Greens and the Coalition did, wouldn't that be a real strong gesture that this is more than just an election promise?
MARK BUTLER: Well that question's obviously very much tied up with the question of election timing, and I'm not privy to that and Kevin Rudd, as Prime Minister, has a range of issues he needs to factor in that decision. But I've made it clear I think before, that I see it as my responsibility to be ready to do either. Either to take legislation to the Parliament in the event that Parliament does sit again before the next election, or if not, then at least to have very, very clear draft legislation out - which I hope will be out in coming days or at the most the next couple of weeks - so that no one could be under any ambiguity or any uncertainly about what the Labor Party's commitment is around climate change.
PETER VAN ONSELEN: I'm sure we'll get to some of those details about the model in a moment. But you mention there about the Government being very clear about the cost of pricing carbon and so on. There's a bit of unclarity though isn't there, or a lack of clarity. Because initially I recall for years during the life of this Parliament, your side of politics saying that the Coalition is overstating the impact on cost of living, they're overstating the impact of the carbon tax on for example electricity prices. Yet part of your pitch for bringing the floating price forward, is to fix cost of living problems - indeed to fix the difficulties that people face in terms of their power bills. That's inconsistent.
MARK BUTLER: Well fix is your language Peter, I don't think Kevin Rudd used that language at all last week. He said that there would be a modest but important impact on cost of living for households, and also an impact on input costs for business, which ultimately will flow onto households. This will be important relief, but the modelling we put out there, the estimates - for example - on electricity prices when the fixed carbon price, or the carbon tax was introduced, was absolutely spot on in, I think, every jurisdiction around the country.
PETER KELLY: Minister do you accept that the emissions trading scheme, which is being adopted, is in fact Julia Gillard's scheme?
MARK BUTLER: Well, it's clear that the scheme introduced and passed, essentially under the prime ministership of Julia Gillard, was going to move to an emissions trading scheme in 2015-16. It has been the policy of the Labor Party for years now, the 2007 election and 10 election, to have an emissions trading scheme - a scheme that caps carbon pollution and allows business to work out the cheapest possible way to work within that limit on carbon pollution in our economy. So yes, Julia Gillard, all members of the Labor caucus, have been committed to emissions trading.
PETER VAN ONSELEN: [Interrupts] So Kevin Rudd is still selling Julia Gillard's scheme, that's the bottom line. He's just brought forward the date of the floating price.
MARK BUTLER: That's right. We've been able to terminate the fixed price, or the carbon tax, what ever language you want to use, twelve months earlier, so that we can move more quickly to the emissions trading scheme, which has always been the ambition of all Labor Party members since well before the 2007 election. We also remember of course, last week is six years to the date that John Howard announced that the Liberal Government then was committed to introducing precisely the emissions trading scheme model that we're moving to introduce in 2014-15. This is not an unusual model to be used in response to this very significant challenge.
PAUL KELLY: Now Minister, the Shadow Minister Greg Hunt argues that over the next eight years the revenue raised through your carbon pricing arrangements, as announced by Kevin Rudd, will be 58 billion as opposed to 64 before. Do you agree with those numbers?
MARK BUTLER: Well no I don't. Look it's important to recognise what happened with Treasury's modelling on this. Treasury, as is appropriate, modelled a price in 2020 that would reflect, I guess, the implementation of the international commitment - so not just here in Australia but across the world - the international commitment to keep carbon pollution to 450 parts per million, which ultimately would mean that the increase in global temperatures would be kept to below two degrees Celsius. And what Treasury has done is essentially drawn a straight line from the floating price date, which will now be 2014-15, up to that price in 2020.
PETER VAN ONSELEN: One of the issues though, isn't it, is that people look at the projections by Treasury for where the floating price will move to, versus the reality of where it's going start now that it's tied into the European scheme. And they look at that and wonder how the budget is going to be anything other than massively in the red, if we are less likely to bring in the kind of revenue through the floating price than Treasury has earmarked, given the amount of compensation that's being handed back to voters at the same time.
MARK BUTLER: But this is not unusual. We don't operate a command and control economy. We operate a private economy, effectively, and Government revenue is always subject to fluctuations in the market as I've said, in response to fluctuations in the currency market. And very significant fluctuations in commodity prices that we've seen, hit revenues very hard. They hit them in a good way in the mid part of the last decade, they're hitting them on the downside, and have been for the last few years. So this is not unusual. It makes Treasury's job very difficult, they're very talented bunch, but over the next coming years they'll have to monitor that market in the same way they monitor all other markets.
PETER VAN ONSELEN: But as uncertain as things like the iron ore price might be if we're seeing a shift from $100 to $70 in percentage terms that's nothing like what we're seeing with the carbon price moving from around $24 a ton down to $6 a ton. I mean that's got to gut the budget, doesn't it?
MARK BUTLER: Which is why we've had to make some pretty responsible but difficult savings over the last week that we've announced. And I guess that is the commitment ultimately particularly the Treasurer and Minister Wong as Finance Minister, they do have a difficult job in a time where revenue is being depressed through the ongoing impact of the GFC and the issue we have with nominal GDP growth being lower than real GDP growth. We have a very strong commitment to fiscal responsibility and as these different markets fluctuate including in the future the carbon market, it is the job of the Expenditure Review Committee to make sure that we cut our cloth accordingly.
PAUL KELLY: Minister, our 2020 reduction target is five per cent. Given the ongoing warnings about the nature of the climate change problem, to what extent would you like to look at a more ambitious target?
MARK BUTLER: Well, in the time I've been the Climate Change Minister, a number of environmental groups have talked to me about their ambition for government to increase the target. As you'll remember we have a range of targets that we've announced. The five per cent minimum and then potentially higher targets depending on progress in international negotiations. My response to them and to the community more broadly is we put in place I think a system that deals with this properly. It's a system overseen by the Climate Change Authority chaired by Bernie Fraser, the former Reserve Bank governor, and he is doing a report along with the rest of his board and the authority staff that will be looking at the 2020 reduction target of five per cent as a minimum and also the caps year on year between 2014 and 2020 to ensure that we to that ultimate end point.
PAUL KELLY: To what extent to you think the Australian public is still concerned about climate change? A number of people would argue the issue has gone off the boil. What's your view of that and to what extent do you think climate change will be an issue front and centre at the coming election?
MARK BUTLER: Well, look I think community views about climate change have moderated to some degree since the middle part of the last decade. I think the impact of the drought particularly in my part of Australia and some other weather events were very much accentuating the sense of immediacy around climate change but also in a zero sum game way after the global financial crisis, there was more of a focus on the immediate, I guess economic health of the country and household security and suchlike. But against all that I think there is still a very deep underlying concern about climate change. I mean some of the research the Climate Institute released last week for example shows that the vast majority of people still think climate change is a reality and a very worrying reality at that. And that human activity is a very significant cause of that climate change.
PAUL KELLY: What I'd like to ask you is do you believe that the Australian public has got to make financial sacrifices in this cause? I mean as Minister, is that your message or not? And the reason I ask the question is because the degree of compensation provided for these arrangements now is simply over the top. So what's your view, what's your message about this point of financial sacrifice?
MARK BUTLER: Well, look, we make no apology, Paul, for the support that we've particularly given to low and middle income households. Households on fixed incomes like pensions to ensure that they are protected during this transition in the economy. There does have to be a very significant transition in the economy and government is supporting that. For example, through supporting small-scale renewable energy projects. People putting solar and solar water heaters on their roof. Right up to the sort of support that we need to give to very large-scale renewable energy projects. I mean to that extent the broader community is making a sacrifice through government making financial commitments and giving financial support to that transition.
PETER VAN ONSELEN: Minister, do you see how it looks like it doesn't make sense? That if you're compensating people indeed overcompensating people for increases in electricity prices attached to measures to try to address climate change, then you're not changing their habits necessarily because they've got the extra money in their pocket to pay for the price rise. The whole point of an Emissions Trading Scheme isn't it to deter people from being in a position where they choose these high emissions intensive forms of energy, why would they do that when they've got the money in their pocket to pay for it?
MARK BUTLER: Well, because and this is the crucial element of an Emissions Trading Scheme, you introduce a cap on carbon pollution so that there is an effective limit on the amount of carbon pollution that can be dumped into the atmosphere. That forces business to start to find cleaner ways to operate. They start trading those obligations through an Emissions Trading Scheme in permit so that they can find the cheapest way to do it. But there is no choice. Under a system that has a cap on carbon pollution, the community simply must move to a cleaner way of operating. But also I've seen a very strong willingness on the part of households to do this.
PETER VAN ONSELEN: Mark Butler, we appreciate your time on Australian Agenda.
Media contact: Tim O’Halloran 0409 059 617
Geoff Seidner
13 Alston Grove East St Kilda 3183
613 9525 9299
13 Alston Grove East St Kilda 3183
613 9525 9299
↧
PVO 11
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Geoff Seidner <myemail99@optusnet.com.au>
Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 9:25 AM
Subject: Fw: Of Viccisitudes and muting the enemy
To: geoffseidner@gmail.com
Begin forwarded message:
From: Geoff Seidner <myemail99@optusnet.com.au>
Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 9:25 AM
Subject: Fw: Of Viccisitudes and muting the enemy
To: geoffseidner@gmail.com
Hi Peter,
Methinks everyone is ‘partisan’ – it is innate in the way we all are. Where the left are however wilfully blind, the conservative view of the world is different.
I am writing on this........
I tell you Peter that Brandis and Julie Bishop are brilliant.
First she appointed Natasha Stott Despoya to an AMBASSADORIAL post for the girl people. Where she will become essentially a publically – mute entity.
In the process he gets her eternal thanks for becoming so encumbered. I remember the interview on ABC TV approx. 10 days ago: it was bemusing.
My blog has not caught up with this matter yet.
Then Brandis does the Tim Wilson ‘thingy’.
Whatever you may write hereunder / earlier today – you have to admire that if nothing else but the sheer chutzpah in similarly silencing Gillian Triggs.
This lady is Wilson’s nominal boss – yet is also effectively encumbered with embarassment. She is of the extreme left – and her organization is not in her control anymore, it seems.
A TV interview I recall as well.
Kindly note that any didactic analysis of things basis an ethereal interpretation of the ‘partisan’ word misses the point. Nor should you enter into other domains – about refugees et al.
[During the next few weeks I look forward to writing a major essay on the vicissitudenous nature of some people: in changing subjects as a diversion. I will send it to you when finished]
In the world of real politic – these guys / girls are ADULTS – compared with the infantile modus vivendi / operandi of Rudd – Gillard – Rudd and the imbeciles who supported them unilaterally.
I look forward to you revisiting writing excellent articles as you frequently do.
Regards
Geoff Seidner
Great appointment by @JulieBishopMP of Natasha Stott Despoja as ...
6 days ago - Great appointment by @JulieBishopMP of Natasha Stott Despoja as Aus... timwilsoncomau's elevation by Brandis to head Human Rights ...Counting The Cost Of Violence Against Women | newmatilda.com
Oct 29, 2013 - Today, former South Australian senator and leader of the Democrats, Natasha Stott-Despoja AM, is in Canberra to meet with the Minister ...Get your facts right | Catallaxy Files
2 days ago - If they don't make a logical, sensible decision on this matter, Brandis is ...The appointment of Ms Stott Despoja did not generate an avalanche ...
Hi Geoff
I won’t read it but wish you the best with your thoughts, I just don’t have time, or the energy, to read that kind of stuff, no offence.
Re Brandis, yes he challenged my claim that Tim W is a partisan, but I invite you and Brandis to actually look up the definition of the word ‘partisan’. Once you do you will see even in his letter today Mr Brandis accidently pointed out that Tim is in fact a partisan. But let me also point this out to you – I assume you are able to see the logic of it – if Tim W isn’t partisan, bc as Brandis says he from time to time doesn’t follow the party line of his political party, what was Brandis doing calling Tim S a partisan, seeing as Tim S also doesn’t always follow the party line of his party – eg on refugees and immigration matters? Very funny that the AG couldn’t see that was where his logic took him…Ooops!
Best
Peter
From: g87 [mailto:g87@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: Monday, 23 December 2013 9:29 AM
To: Van Onselen, Peter
Subject: Greetings PVO
Sent: Monday, 23 December 2013 9:29 AM
To: Van Onselen, Peter
Subject: Greetings PVO
Greetings, PVO
Thanks for your comments.
Under the circumstances there is no way I wish to create a problem by communicating with you by further on this subject: I guess any subject.
You could take it as harassment – and unless you so indicate to the contrary you may need to merely secretly look at my blog from time to time. It will rapidly move from PVO soon. May you write quality items with considered thought in future.
Note that the Attorney General George Brandis has also taken you to task this morning in The Australian. He is being generous to you: he is a politician after all. Maybe I too should have been ‘generous’. There are so many twirps of the left: why did I pick on you?
However I promise not to tell if you have a ‘decko’ at my next few entries on my blog.
Humour attempted.
Regards
Geoff Seidner
Hi there,
You sound rather unhinged, I hope things all come together for you in the years ahead
All the best
Peter
Sent from my iPad
Sent from my iPad
Begin forwarded message:
From: Peter Van Onselen <peter.vanonselen@uwa.edu.au>
Date: 22 December 2013 11:58:25 AM AEDT
To: "vanonselenp@theaustralian.com.au"<vanonselenp@theaustralian. com.au>
Subject: FW: PVO IS A FOOL
This message and its attachments may contain legally privileged or confidential information. It is intended solely for the named addressee. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message or responsible for delivery of the message to the addressee, you may not copy or deliver this message or its attachments to anyone. Rather, you should permanently delete this message and its attachments and kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail. Any content of this message and its attachments which does not relate to the official business of the sending company must be taken not to have been sent or endorsed by that company or any of its related entities. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachments are free from computer virus or other defect.
Geoff Seidner
13 Alston Grove East St Kilda 3183
613 9525 9299
13 Alston Grove East St Kilda 3183
613 9525 9299
↧
PVO 12....DECEMBER 30 2013 'enjoy...and Brandis'
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Geoff Seidner <myemail99@optusnet.com.au>
Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 9:28 AM
Subject: dec 30... Hi Peter.... George Brandis has responded to you in today’s The Oz.
To: geoffseidner@gmail.com
From: Geoff Seidner <myemail99@optusnet.com.au>
Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 9:28 AM
Subject: dec 30... Hi Peter.... George Brandis has responded to you in today’s The Oz.
To: geoffseidner@gmail.com
From: Van Onselen, Peter
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 3:28 PM
To: g87
Subject: Re: Hi Peter.... George Brandis has responded to you in today’s The Oz.
Hi Geoff
Enjoy your fun, as I enjoy the many many benefits of what I do (and love to do). Currently relaxing on holidays.
All the best
Peter
Sent from my iPad
Sent from my iPad
Hi Peter,Please note that George Brandis has responded to you in today’s The Oz. It was inevitable. The A - G is of course very generous to you in his carefully considered item.I am of course not so encumbered with trying to optimise my electoral popularity VS the need to respond to your pretty outrageous efforts.Fortunate perhaps is that most people are on hols.You should contemplate my heroic incipient efforts. I have lots of interests – and have tried to invent a means of stopping time.You will see my response reasonably soon.Note also that Catalaxy has also taken the ‘parody weapon’ to you. See below.Do you intend a decko at the comments?Other salient links will be posted as convenient during the silly season; we are regularly taking days off to be with the grandchildren and whatever else we pick to relax with.I somehow hope we all continue to have fun at your expense.As a further aside: you should really not continue this farce in yet another column.Sadly – you may just do that.RegardsGeoffFrom: Catallaxy FilesSent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 11:11 AMSubject: [New post] PVOs watch list for 2014
Sent from my iPadHello PeterCongratulations,You have in your two recent articles given me enough incentive to base a major essay, thesis, monograph or even a book on the subject ofMEDIA MANIPULATION AND INSULTS TO THE INTELLIGENCE.I may change the nomenclature – but methinks some people may recognize that it will be based on theWINTROP PROFESSOR OF JOURNALISM AT WA UNI.I will send you advance copies as I write it: you may be prepared to comment on salient segments.Oh – by the way – I will try to find room for Emmerson: remember him?His article is right next to yours in Saturday’s Oz.Yours SincerelyGeoff SeidnerDecember (66)
- PVO - 28/12 ..A lesson for Brandis on the meaning ...
- Emmerson 28/12: Deep thinker says subs are the sol...
- GS: 29/12 LYNCH AND MEALY - MOUTHED PHRASES OF RAC...
- Complete Catalaxy and comments re Dreyfus and Tr...
- Att: M Dreyfus: brilliant Catalaxy re disgraceful ...
- J'ACCUSE Mark Dreyfus of weakness
- 24/12 -Lauren Wilson.. Brandis fends off demands t...
- BRANDIS [et al] RESPOND/S TO PVO 23/12
- PVO responds again: Of Viccisitudes and muting the...
- PVO RESPONDS - Greetings, PVO
- PVO IS ALSO A FOOL
- The ultimate Labored fool - Emmerson???
This message and its attachments may contain legally privileged or confidential information. It is intended solely for the named addressee. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message or responsible for delivery of the message to the addressee, you may not copy or deliver this message or its attachments to anyone. Rather, you should permanently delete this message and its attachments and kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail. Any content of this message and its attachments which does not relate to the official business of the sending company must be taken not to have been sent or endorsed by that company or any of its related entities. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachments are free from computer virus or other defect.
Geoff Seidner
13 Alston Grove East St Kilda 3183
613 9525 9299
13 Alston Grove East St Kilda 3183
613 9525 9299
↧
↧
PVO 14 Peashooters Aug 1, 2914
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Geoff Seidner <myemail99@optusnet.com.au>
Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 9:28 AM
Subject: Fw: PROPORTIONALITY IF ISRAEL USED PEA SHOOTERS??
To: geoffseidner@gmail.com
From: Geoff Seidner <myemail99@optusnet.com.au>
Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 9:28 AM
Subject: Fw: PROPORTIONALITY IF ISRAEL USED PEA SHOOTERS??
To: geoffseidner@gmail.com
From: g87
Sent: Friday, August 1, 2014 2:06 PM
Subject: Fw: PROPORTIONALITY IF ISRAEL USED PEA SHOOTERS??
Hi Peter
What are the chances of publication?
Regards Geoff
From: g87
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 1:50 PM
To: the australian
Subject: PROPORTIONALITY IF ISRAEL USED PEA SHOOTERS??
PROPORTIONALITY IF ISRAEL USED PEA SHOOTERS??
Would Richardson suggest better PROPORTIONALITY IF ISRAEL USED PEA SHOOTERS??
Or would it please Richardson if the recognized terrorist group Hamas murdered more Jews? As is their constitutional aim?
Would it not be better if Israel had the Iron Dome taken away so proportionality could be restored?
Is Jewish blood to be so discounted in the world of the socialists that they have to die proportionally to the murderers?
Is that all there is in the perverse, nether world of ‘proportionalty’? Is this socialism wherein the weaker aggressor is not seen as such?
Should this sickening proportionality be taken to the degree that Israel cease to sacrifice young men and women and simply bomb them into the dark ages?
Israel could level Gaza within minutes.
Instead her soldiers seek to protect Gaza’s citizens by the disproportionate use of force : and her soldiers die disproportionally! In that they should not have to die!
The same citizens who cheer whenever aJew is murdered?
See above tangent ....Should this sickening proportionality be taken to the degree.....
I read Richardson’s article as well as having heard his internicine ravings against the Jewish state on Skynews... for months...inc last night and or the night before!
And last week and earlier this week...over the years....
He is a regular guest on all 8 – 9 pm slots as well as having his [pathetic] RICHO one hour show.
As well as having to fill a column for The Oz.
So I say Richo is plainly the popular diminutive of a modern trichotomy: Stupidity, wilful ignorance or merely evil.
Years ago we took the commentariat - those 'popularly' decimating Israel - as stupid.
Soon we realized that they were wilfully ignorant.
Now I have reluctantly come to the realization that there is evil all around.
Tragically there are now new standards of anti semitism extant and the fear that we are living in dangerous times is reinforced daily.
Years ago we took the commentariat - those 'popularly' decimating Israel - as stupid.
Soon we realized that they were wilfully ignorant.
Now I have reluctantly come to the realization that there is evil all around.
Tragically there are now new standards of anti semitism extant and the fear that we are living in dangerous times is reinforced daily.
Thanks, oh diminuted one!
Geoff Seidner
East St Kilda3183
Geoff Seidner
13 Alston Grove East St Kilda 3183
613 9525 9299
13 Alston Grove East St Kilda 3183
613 9525 9299
↧
PVO 15 fun... Nov 2017
From: The Australian
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2015 9:32 AM
Subject: Geoff, last chance to talk politics with Peter van Onselen and enter November competitions
| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Entries for the GoPro HD Hero4 Action Video Camera open at 09.00am on Monday 2nd November, 2015 and close 11.59pm Monday 30th November, 2015. Winner determined 4th December, 2015 11.00am at Pinpoint, 34 James Craig Road, Rozelle 2039. Winner’s name published on the Australian Plus website. Total prize pool valued at $699. Full term and conditions available theaustralianplus.com.au. Entries for luxury tropical cruise open at 09.00am Monday 12 October 2015 and close 11.59pm Saturday 5 December 2015. Total prize pool valued at $26,235.00. Australian residents aged 18 years and over only. Winner drawn 10am Wednesday 8 December 2015 at Salmat Digital Pty Limited, Level 2, 116 Miller Street, North Sydney. Winner’s name published Friday 11 December 2015 on The Australian Plus website. Permit numbers NSW: LTPS/15/07693, ACT: TP15/07608, SA: T15/1742. Promoter is Compagnie du Ponant Ltd. (ABN 35 166 676 517) of 3 Eden Street, North Sydney, NSW 2060, Australia. Telephone number is 02 8459 5007. Full term and conditions available theaustralianplus.com.au. Entries open for Bang & Olufsen H8 headphones on Monday 2 November 2015 at 09.00am and close Monday 30 November 2015 at 11.59pm. Australian residents only. Winner drawn Wednesday 2 December 2015 at Pinpoint, 34 James Craig Road Rozelle, NSW 2039. Winner's name published on Monday 7 December 2015 on The Australian Plus website. Total prize pool valued at $679. Full term and conditions available theaustralianplus.com.au. Entries open for James Halliday's premium six wine case on Monday 2 November 2015 at 9am and close Monday 30 November 2015 at 11.59pm. Australian residents over the age of 18 only. Winner drawn Wednesday 2 December 2015 at Pinpoint, 34 James Craig Road Rozelle, NSW 2039. Winner's name published on Monday 7 December 2015 on The Australian Plus website. Total prize pool valued at $415. Full term and conditions available theaustralianplus.com.au. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Geoff Seidner
13 Alston Grove East St Kilda 3183
613 9525 9299
13 Alston Grove East St Kilda 3183
613 9525 9299
↧
Seidner's evisceration of Adams #1
Sickening Phillip Adams ex May 2002
cvffc
Now peace it together By Phillip Adams 25may02 IN a recent conversation, Robert Fisk, arguably the best informed journalist on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, compared that dance of death with what was happening 40 years ago in Algeria. Responding to the Arabs' bombing of French cafes in Algiers, the occupying French army demanded carte blanche to "end terror". Their retaliation was brutal and included the use of torture. Contemporary writers, notably philosopher Raymond Aron, observed that the damage France was doing to the Algerians was nothing compared with the damage it was doing to itself. Refusing to apportion blame in the conflict, Aron ignored the issues of terrorism, torture and France's campaign of state-sponsored political assassinations to assert that the facts demanded France withdraw. He insisted that the origins of the disaster no longer mattered. What mattered is that it had to end. In a fine essay on the Middle East crisis titled The road to nowhere (The New York Review of Books), Tony Judt, director of the Remarque Institute at New York University, applies Aron's thinking to the bloodbath in Israel. Like Fisk, he finds the similarities with the Algerian crisis overwhelming. And he calls for the same solution that Aron proposed. I am pro-Israel. I'm also pro-Palestinian. This is not a contradiction. It is the only way to approach the most dangerous conflict in the world. So I wholeheartedly endorse Judt's advice to both sides. He argues that the solution to the conflict "is in plain sight". Israel exists and the Palestinians and other Arabs will eventually accept this – as many do already. The Palestinians can neither be expelled from "Greater Israel" nor integrated into it. Shove them into Jordan and that nation will "explode, with disastrous consequences for Israel". "Palestinians need a real state of their own and they will have one. The two states will be delineated in accordance with the map drawn up at the Taba negotiations in January 2001. Nearly all of the occupied territories will come under Palestinian rule. Thus the Israeli settlements in these territories are doomed and most of them will be dismantled. "There will be no Arab right of return; and it is time to abandon the anachronistic Jewish one. Jerusalem is already largely divided along ethnic lines and will, eventually, be the capital of both states. Since these states will have a common interest in stability and shared security concerns, they will learn in time to co-operate. Community-based organisations like Hamas, offered the chance to transform themselves from terrorist networks into political parties, will take this path." Judt reminds us that de Gaulle extricated his countrymen from Algeria with relative ease. Following 50 years of monstrous repression, white South Africans handed over power to a black majority who replaced them without violence or revenge. The most feared black in South Africa, Nelson Mandela, became an inspiration to the world. Judt sees Israelis "still trapped in the story of their own uniqueness". For many Jews, their entitlements derive from the Jewish community that existed in the territory of modern Israel thousands of years ago. Others claim that God gave them title to the lands of Judea and Samaria. Others – and I include myself in this category – cite the Holocaust, arguing that this greatest of atrocities allows Jews to make great claims on the world. But there are Israelis who state their case in geographic or Realpolitik terms. Back to Judt: "We are so vulnerable, they say, so surrounded by enemies, that we cannot take any risks or afford a single mistake. The French could withdraw across the Mediterranean; South Africa is a very large country. We have nowhere to go." Behind every Israeli refusal to face the inevitability of hard choices "stands the implicit guarantee" of the US. To visit Israel is to be astonished by its minuteness – and its sense of geographic vulnerability. But don't forget that the Israel of 2002 isn't the Israel of 1967. Today's Israel is a significant regional and colonial power and, by some measures, the world's fourth largest military establishment. It is, in short, a mighty nation. Whereas the Palestinians' desperation is a measure of their weakness. They are so weak that their leader, Yasser Arafat, can be jailed in a couple of darkened rooms. "While the failings of the Palestinian leadership have been abysmal and the crimes of Palestinian terrorists extremely bloody, the fact is that Israel has the military and political initiative," writes Judt. "Responsibility for moving beyond the present impasse thus falls primarily, though not exclusively, on Israel." Why are the Israelis blind to this? Why do they insist on regarding themselves as, in Judt's words, "a small victim community, defending themselves with restraint and reluctance against overwhelming odds"? Arafat may have been an appalling leader. But Sharon is every bit as appalling – as the massacres in Lebanon attest. As his present policies prove. Arafat stands condemned for wasted opportunities but Israel has wasted much of the past 35 years. "In that time Israelis have built illegal compounds in the occupied territories and grown a carapace of cynicism towards the Palestinians, whom they regard with contempt." And the US has been "manipulated shamelessly". Describing Sharon as "Israel's dark id", Judt speaks for many friends of Israel when he says that the Prime Minister has proven as bad as many of us feared. His vision clouded by his hatred of Arafat, his policies have denied Israel credible Palestinian negotiators. "If he ever gets rid of Arafat, and the bombers keep coming, as they will, what will Sharon do then?" asks Judt. "And what will he do when young Arabs from Israel itself, inflamed by Israel's treatment of their cousins in occupied Jenin and Ramallah, volunteer for suicide missions? Will he send the tanks into Galilee? Put up electric fences around the Arab districts of Haifa?" Israelis can't forget the war of 1948, the Arabs' refusal to recognise their state before 1967 and the random massacres of the past year. But the Palestinians can't forget the mass expulsions of 1948, the land expropriations, the colonisation of the West Bank, the political assassinations. But the enemies in Northern Ireland are learning to negotiate and will learn to forget. Judt reminds us of a 1944 SS massacre – the burning alive of 700 French men, women and children in the village of Oradour. Yet a few years later "France and Germany came together to form the core of a new European project". Yes, Israel's present policy is "a road to nowhere". As Judt says, "there is no alternative to peace negotiations and a final settlement. And if not now, when?"philadams@ozemail.com.au |
----- Original Message -----
From:GEOFF SEIDNER
To:Switzer, Tom
Sent: Monday, May 27, 2002 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: Article in response to Phillip Adams V 3.1 !!
Good Morning,
Tom Switzer, Judith Elen,
The Australian.
There is / [was] something here for everyone; Judith Elen, your letters editor will be happy,...... lots of rejoinders...... why even Mr Adams can point out what HE will think is a major error in my essay / article! Idid this just to make him happy. In fact ,it is of absolutely of NO consequence, if you read the latter part closely , refering just as closely to Adams' original.
However I thought better of it and have corrected the potential, ACADEMIC anomaly. You will have to read v2 to see the so -called 'major error. Sorry, Mr Adams, you will have to work hard.
GS
----- Original Message -----From:GEOFF SEIDNERTo:Switzer, TomSent: Sunday, May 26, 2002 9:13 PMSubject: Re: Article in response to Phillip Adams V 3.1!!MORE CORRECTIONS MADE: MAINLY 'TYPOS', AND ADDITIONS AT THE LATTER PART ETCFeatures / Opinion Editor;Dear Mr Switzer,Please note below article. Adams should not be allowed to get away without some recourse. If you cannot publish for some reason, please profer to your letters Editor, Judith Elen. it would be SOME letter!Geoffrey Seidner13 Alston Gr East St Kilda 3183 Ph 03 9 525 9299 0407 525 929A PEACE OF WHAT?!Phillip Adams has not penned anything of value over the past decade.[Many have written letters attesting to this over the years. Give up, Phillip, you can always call it 'writers' block.] Letter writers to the Australian have frequently written, decrying his half a dozen - or more - tirades against the Prime Minister. All within the past year. His latest attack seems to be Israel:The Australian, May 25 -26 2002 . [The Review, page R24]He seeks 'protection' for his anti Israeli views by coalescing with an Arab apologist [Robert Fisk]and a motley band of academics he thinks add gravitas to outrageous ideas.Sadly he makes an unhealthy variation on the discreditable anti semites by line, with these words:"I am pro Israel. I'm also pro Palestinian.This is not a contradiction....''[Tell me - just the two of us .... are your best friends still Jewish?]Of course not, Phillip - of course it is not a contradiction! You are merely trying to hide your malfeasance via an aged contrivance. Me thinks you doth protest too much, or merely trying to con the reader into believing that the following verbiage is 'balanced'He attempts to make a comparison with France and the Algerian Civil War of 1954 -1962, without pointing out the unfair comparative dichotomy; Israel's significant under -reaction , and France's arguably different approach. There is no valid comparison for many other reasons; space mitigates against a prolix dissemination. In fact these discredited / comparative views were promulgated by Fisk on 17 /4/ 2001 in The Independent. It lacked objectivity then and was deservedly, widely criticised.Adams suggests, in an abstruce way- that the Arabs / Palestinians will eventually accept Israel's right to exist. Eventually! Perhaps another 55 years? How many more terrorist attacks? Then he makes an oblique jump in logic by ignoring all the agreements that they have broken. Somehow he manages to whitewash the major terrorist group [Hamas], calling them ''community based'', [sounds like a mothers' play- group, the way it is put!] suggesting that they will co operate in some sort of ''stability and shared security concerns'' Only an academic would try to get away with this piece of disengenious pap!'Generously' he then postulates that there will be no Arab right of return, then goes on; ''.... and it is time to abandon the anachronistic Jewish one'' Tell me Mr Adams, did you somehow forget what you wrote earlier? Let me quote your gratuituos words:''...and I include myself in this category -cite the Holocaust , arguing that this greatest of attrocities allows Jews to make great claims on the world''So here we have a true academic in all sorts of trouble; effectively banning these same Jews .... Holocaust et al - from entering Israel as citizens !! Only an academic could ......The true leftie in Adams even allows him to have a go at the USA; ''Behind every Israeli refusal to face the inevitability of hard choices stands the implicit guarantee of the US''Hey Adams; are you really suggesting that the might of America will come down on the Palestinians / Arabs? Because in the very next paragraph you write;''...Today's Israel is a significant regional and colonial power and, by some measures, the world's fourth largest military establishment. It is , in short, a mighty nation.''Only an academic could so tie himself up in subtle self - contradictions! He seeks to somehow disparage Israel for being in one instance in de facto need of USA help, and then neatly , shamelessly suggesting a mutually exclusive concept!! Only an academic could......Whilst begrudgingly agreeing that ''Arafat stands condemned for wasted opportunities'', within the same sentence he somehow manages to blame Israel; ''but Israel has wasted much of the past 35 years''[Yes,Adams, in a manner of speaking, you may be right. It is arguable that Israel has wasted much time and thousands of the lives of her citizenry by believing that an agreement could be reached as part of many peace overtures and consessions! ]Only an academic could justify this by rambling on, as per below, amongst other things.Possibly the worst of this article is his suggestion of a quid pro quo relationship between what HE calls ''politicall assasinations'' and ....[so -called!!!] '' .....mass expulsions of 1948, [the so- called!!!!] ''land expropriations, the colonisation of the West Bank ,'' [and - worst of all!!!] THE POLITICALL ASSASINATIONS'' !!He has a credibility problem, again. Why try to create moral equivalence between the murder of a five year old girl in her bed and the military reaction against terrorists who somehow can bring themselves to such acts of depravity? I could not believe academics could......Never mind the attempts are revising history re 1948 ; ''...mass expulsions of 1948, the land expropriations .....'' Not enough time / opportunity to give you a history lesson in this article.Stick to writing John Howard articles and simply bore people to death.Geoffrey Seidner
cvffc
↧
Phillip Adams believes in the JFK Conspiracy! #2 ex 2004
----- Original Message -----
From:Geoff Seidner
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 1:10 PM
Subject: Phillip Adams believes in the JFK Conspiracy!
In his lamentable, typically boring anti American article ''War cries an insult to our intelligence'' [The Australian, 11/02] Phillip Adams actually blames Americans for ''....failing to protect president John F Kennedy from those who wanted him dead''
How sad that Phillip has forgotten the number of anti - conspiracy articles he has penned over the years. Of course they may have been better days: I find it incongruous that he thus supports the classical modern - day conspiracy, not even contemplating that some people recall his better days!
By the way, Phillip; you seek to ads gravitas to your scribbling by mocking the war against terror by reference to the Harold Holt conspiracy: note that it was a Japanese submarine, not Chinese!
Geoff Seidner
13 Alston Grove East St Kida 3183 ..... 03 9525 9299
Letter to Editor
The Australian Feb. 13 2004
I've got what Phillip Adams wants (Opinion, 11/2), a bullshit detector. It lights up like a Christmas tree everytime I read one of his columns.
Tony Cooke
Morisset, NSW
Tony Cooke
Morisset, NSW
 War cries an insult to our intelligence 11feb04 IN this era of technological triumphalism and digital dazzlements, you would think someone would have come up with a BSD. A bullshit detector. With circuitry installed in your TV, computer or mobile phone ready to buzz or blink when someone tries to lay it on with a trowel. The old joke that asks: "How can you tell when a politician's lying?" is answered by: "When his lips move." Yet too many people remain oblivious to political lying. In many cases such credulity is wilful, a deliberate choice. How else could this ongoing BS about weapons of mass destruction remain an issue? Those fortunate enough to have a natural aptitude for BS detection were trying to warn the world what was going on throughout the preamble to the war in Iraq. When the only people on earth who believed, or pretended to believe that George W.Bush, Tony Blair and John Howard were telling the truth were to be found among the gullible and the culpable in the US, the UK and Australia. The great fraud that went on for month after month, wherein our PM echoed the nonsense being pumped out in Washington and London, failed to convince a majority of Australians while being rejected and ridiculed by nations and populations around the world. The thuggery that went on at the UN, the revelations of former weapons inspector Scott Ritter and the blundering attacks on Hans Blix were clear evidence of Bush's and Blair's determination to bulldoze their countries into an unnecessary conflict. The BS was laid on so thick that you didn't need a detector. It was clear that Howard didn't believe what he was saying and hardly cared if we didn't believe him either. Remember Howard's twaddle about no final decision having been made about our involvement? Australia's media was all but buried in Uluru-sized dollops of BS in an ongoing piece of political and media theatrics that was even less convincing, less plausible, than the silliest cosmetic ads. While Baghdad's Baathists would be stunned by the scale of Washington's war, many of us were more shocked and awed by the scale of its BS. It wasn't the WMDs we were worrying about but the WBS. The powerful weapons of bullshit. It's not an issue of the reliability of US Intelligence. When has it ever been reliable? Intelligence (sic) failed to notice that North Korea was about to invade the South. It was responsible for such glorious stuff-ups as the Bay of Pigs and, subsequently, failed to protect president John F. Kennedy from those who wanted him dead. Having grotesquely exaggerated the military might of the Soviet Union throughout the cold war, intelligence failed to predict communism's collapse. Then there was the small problem of its failure to protect the US from September 11. BUT all this low IQ intelligence is nothing compared with the unintelligence, the idiocy, of what passes for political leadership. It was the scale of the exaggerations, the out-and-out fabrications, the bare-faced fraudulence of the whole preamble to the war in Iraq, that critics found profoundly offensive. One might have forgiven Bush and Co if, for a moment, they had believed what they were saying. If they had simply been misinformed. Or mistaken. But it was all chicanery and charades, sexing up any intelligence that could be conjured by Washington while ignoring any contradictory information or advice. Critics were vilified, having their patriotism questioned. It became treasonable to protest. We've witnessed an ugly war waged by ugly people against, yes, an ugly despot. And the WMD were just one of the lies used to justify it. Never forget the vacuous allegation (more unintelligent intelligence) that the invasion was an essential part of the war against terror because Iraq was in league with al-Qa'ida. Of course it was. Just as Harold Holt was plucked off Cheviot Beach by a Chinese submarine. Intelligence? Washington would have been better off relying on the revelations in owls' entrails or the horoscopes in women's magazines. |
↧
↧
Complete disrespect of non-believers.
where's your proof?